To Think Mums are Discriminated Against when Job Hunting?

[TheLazyGirlBlog]

Am ranting slightly (and DP raised his eyes to the heavens so bear with me ladies).

I am trying to get a job at the moment after 5 years out due to DCs. My DP is self employed and we could do with an extra income.

I didn't in anyway think I could just apply and get a job straight away, I'm not daft, there's a recession etc (please don't flame me). However, I've applied for at least 50 jobs across about 5 towns and have got not one reply in 2 months.

Prior to having my DD 5 years ago, I'd worked solidly in retail from the age of 14 onwards. I did both a Retail management and Health and Safety courses a year before getting pregnant and was working as an assistant manager.

When DD was 11 months old, I got PG again (accident but was told I wouldn't get PG again due to internal issues), and had my DS at 28 weeks. He has had all sorts of illnesses, hence the long time out. However, I've run my websites with teams, worked with brands and PRs in that time so not just sat on my arse watching TV all day (as I assume these managers think).

I have tried everything, and not had one email back even to say thanks but no thanks. I cant see it would be my previous employment as going back to same thing (wanted to work in PR, got nowhere with that either). So now think its the 5 years out of work.

It feels like discrimination, as I've spoken to other Mums in the same position. Companies wouldn't be allowed to discriminate against any other social group but they do it to Mums returning to work all the time. My niece is 17, never had a job and got one straight away.Feel like a failure.

Tips?

[CleoSmackYa]

No tips, but I'm looking too!

[AnnaRack]

Do you have to tell them you're a mum? You shouldn't have to put anything in job applications about your private life.

[fiorentina]

Maybe obvious but have you tried tweaking your cv to show what else you've been doing during your time away from paid employment? Could you do any back to work courses to boost your cv and show you are keen. It's a shame these things are necessary but perhaps would help you? Do you have any skills to work for yourself on a more freelance basis?

Sorry you may have thought of all these things previously. Good luck with your search.

[Numberlock]

Hi LazyGirl. It incenses me so much when companies don't even have the courtesy to acknowledge applications, even if it's just a short thanks but no thanks email or letter. Only takes 2 minutes to send! It reflects so badly on companies with poor HR procedures.

Anyway.

Can I ask:

• are you applying for specific jobs or just writing to companies on spec
  
• how have you handled the 5-year 'gap' on your CV
  
• are you using your network of friends, family, LinkedIn etc etc to let it be known you're actively seeking work and to keep their ears open
  
• have you registered with agencies (in person as well as on-line)
  

I'd be more than happy to review your CV if you want to PM me (obviously taking off personal details).

[TunipTheVegemal]

They are discriminated against, Cordelia Fine describes the research in Delusions of Gender.
When people were asked to rate CVs that were identical except for one mentioning children and the other not, the ones mentioning children were rated lower on things like skill and commitment. Men's CVs that mentioned children did not show a similar difference in how they were rated....

[ToadsPornFrogsPawn]

You've had 5 years out, what did you expect? Any employer may regard that as a negative, whatever your reason, male or female. Perhaps your niece was more realistic in her applications?
You're not a failure, you just need to keep applying. I agree employers should respond in an ideal world, but the time/cost factor may be prohibitive

[Numberlock]

Tunip I can't imagine any circumstances when I would mention my children on my CV, it's of no relevance. And the OP has no need to either:

I've run my websites with teams, worked with brands and PRs in that time

This covers her 5 year gap under the heading Freelance PR and Marketing.

[RichManPoorManBeggarmanThief]

It's not discrimination unless they would treat you differently to a non-mum with a 5 year CV gap. However, your OP suggests you have actually worked during that time so maybe it's actually how you're selling yourself. Can you post here what you've written on your CV re that 5 year period and we can see how it comes across?

What I would say is that based on people's experiences recounted on MN, employers are very very focused on recent experience. Also, I wouldn't feel bad about not getting into PR without any experience at the current time as there are plenty of people with experience washing around.

[TheLazyGirlBlog]

I've applied for specific jobs and via brand websites careers sections- I learnt that you don't generally go in and ask about work in a specific shop anymore when I popped into my local town centre and was told it doesn't work like that anymore.

I've tweaked my CV (SIL is in HR for Office workers so she gave me some tips) and have added details on my sites, awards etc (hoping not to sound like a Nerd). She did say most will look at your last 5 years employment which I have none of, so I do point out previous history, courses etc.

Have put word out round friends and family other SIL asked at M&S as before she trained as a Nurse she worked for them for donkeys years but they don't employ via that system anymore.

I I would like to go back to school and train in Media and PR but simply don't have the funds available right now. I went with the retail thing as due to my previous employment history and getting nowhere with PR firms I thought it was my best option!

You kind of have to say you are a parent due to the massive gap in employment, plus if one of them needs me off due to illness or anything else you can bugger your contract.

Sorry for the "sitting on arse" thing, I feel like that's how they pigeon hole return to work Mums!

[hairytale]

Never, ever mention children in a job application. Personal info like marital status, whether you have children ar completely irrelevant.

[WilsonFrickett]

If you've applied for 50 jobs either you're applying for jobs that don't match your skills, or your CV is poorly written.

What's the top line on your CV?? (obvs don't identify yourself!)

[Veryfrustratedandfedup]

I have never been for an interview post children where I have not been asked about childcare arrangements, whether I can juggle work and motherhood, and what my DH thinks of me applying for/accepting the job!! It sucks!

[AnnaRack]

Describe your occupation for the past 5 years as "PA to 2 very demanding people". Tell them your job is highliy responsible and involves working round the clock, crisis management, etc.
Seriously though it's hard for everyone now, and employers are prejudiced. You will have to explain the 5 year gap at some point but you don't need to say anything yet, first of all emphasise all your career highlights and experience. Best of luck!

[redskyatnight]

It's not because you're a mum though, it's the CV gap. I know men with similar gaps who are having similar problems. Unless you can prove otherwise you are less employable than someone who hasn't had a career break.

[WilsonFrickett]

Massive X post, but you've answered my point. Cover the gap with 'freelance' activities, take off every mention of children, time out, etc.

My CV doesn't have my employment listed chronologically till the very bottom, I list my five key strengths (with evidence) which also makes it easy to 'tweak' to suit the job.

If the first thing in your CV is a job you held in 2007 you won't get interviews.

[Callisto]

If you have applied for 50 jobs and not had a single response then I think you need to look at your CV because I think it is letting you down, and perhaps aim a little lower in your job expectations. Part time instead of full time etc. Have you thought of using your retail experience to get a low-level job at your local supermarket and working your way back up? Times are tough at the moment but the private sector is recruiting and this recession will not last forever. Good luck.

[Callisto]

Veryfrustrated - at potential employers asking you what your husband thinks about you applying for work. I hope you say 'none of your bloody business' (in a very interview style, obviously).

[MrsRobertDuvallHasRosacea]

I went back to work after eight years of not working and got the first job I applied for.
In a totally different area of employment to what I'd done for 15 years before.
I didn't hide the fact I had two small children, and in fact I brought up childcare arrangements in the interview.

[Kayano]

I would say amend your cv too

[Numberlock]

You kind of have to say you are a parent due to the massive gap in employment, plus if one of them needs me off due to illness or anything else you can bugger your contract

100% disagree - the 5 year gap is addressed as Freelance PR and Marketing and details of the work you mention above. Do not mention anything about your private situation - children or marital status!

And "buggering a contract" because you need time of for family matters?

The main focus at this stage is on getting an interview.

asked about childcare arrangements, whether I can juggle work and motherhood, and what my DH thinks of me applying for/accepting the job

Apart from the fact that I would not wish to work for such a company, this question is addressed by "all the arrangements are in place to enable me to carry out this job to the best of my abillity".

What's the top line on your CV

Good question from Wilson. The topline is the attention grabber eg "PR specialist with x years experience in the retail industry, focused on web design, management of client budget, events management" (Tailor to your history, obviously, but you get the idea.)

Make it impossible for potential employers to spot that you have been out of full-time work for the last 5 years.

[Ephiny]

50 jobs in 2 months is a lot. I haven't applied for that many in my life! I am always sceptical when people say they've applied for 50, 100, 200 etc jobs, because surely in that case they are unlikely to be tailoring their application for the role in question, doing their 'homework' about the company or employer, really presenting a strong case for why they're the right person for this particular job, what exactly they can offer the employer etc.

WilsonFricket's advice is good.

[wannaBe]

well to be fair I think that it's a combination of factors.

Firstly, the job market is saturated with applicants at the moment with far more applicants than actual positions. This means that employers essentially have the pick of the candidates they want, and so anyone who is currently looking for work is going to struggle.

Secondly, employers do want relevant experience and that means now rather than five years ago, and to tie in with point number one, as they have a pick of candidates, they can find that current and relevant experience without needing to look at applicants who haven't been in the workplace for the past five years.

I'm afraid that one of the pitfalls of giving up a job to become a sahm is that essentially the longer you stay out of work, the less likely you are to be able to go back there easily. That's not a criticism btw, I speak as a sahm of ten years who is in a similar position.

[wannaBe]

"If you've applied for 50 jobs either you're applying for jobs that don't match your skills, or your CV is poorly written." I disagree. On average in London at the moment most positions are attracting between 200 and 300 applicants. That puts your chances at even getting an interview very low.

Now, I haven't applied for 50 jobs, and I do agree that that is a lot to apply for in such a short time, and that it seems likely that op is applying for positions she is either over or under qualified for, but in the current market it simply isn't the case that if you're applying and not getting success then it's you that is doing something wrong. There just aren't an abundance of jobs out there at the moment, however there is definitely an abundance of applicants.

[Veryfrustratedandfedup]

Callisto, I've smiled sweetly and said "He's fine by it, we make our own decisions about our career"

I've also been quizzed before about childcare arrangements, not just asked if I have childcare in place but been asked to detail it.