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To wonder whether a man can be raped?

(181 Posts)
JazzAnnNonMouse Fri 24-Aug-12 06:04:04

I do not mean Anally.

Reading the thread about rape being any form of non mutual enthusiasm (although I can't seem to put it so eloquently, sorry). I think it has opened my mind to what rape actually is.
I was wondering therefore can a man be raped because they have to have some enthusiasm to gain an erection. (unless drugged I guess?)

TyrannoSoreArse Fri 24-Aug-12 06:18:39

The Sexual Offences Act 2003 states that the offence of Rape (Sec 1(1) SOA 2003) can only be committed by a man; however, a woman can be charged with, or convicted of rape as a secondary party.

Is this what you meant?

JazzAnnNonMouse Fri 24-Aug-12 06:25:35

Probably - thank you.
I am learning (through mn!). I really don't want to say that I am a rape apologist but I think I am ignorant to the truth. angry with myself and the education system unfortunately though I believe I am surrounded by rape apologists who dont even know that they are.

OptimisticPessimist Fri 24-Aug-12 06:56:11

Rape (under the law on England and Wales and also Scotland) is unwanted oral, vaginal or anal penetration by a penis, so can only be committed by a man, although women can be accessories to rape and charge with rape (if she helped in the organising of a rape iyswim). Victims can be male or female.

If a woman has unconsenting sex with a man or another woman, it's classified as sexual assault. There's an offence of sexual assault by penetration which covers the use of objects etc.

OptimisticPessimist Fri 24-Aug-12 06:58:31

I think an erection is an involuntary reflex btw, as is vaginal lubrication. So it is possible for a woman to force sex on a man.

2beornot Fri 24-Aug-12 07:01:49

Jazz, I think I get you question and any man will tell you that unwanted erections can happen at any time. And of course men, like women, can be aroused without wanting to have sex. A woman who uses the fact that a man has an erection as an excuse is just as bad as a man who says she didn't say no/was asking for it!

TyrannoSoreArse Fri 24-Aug-12 07:04:34

I have a male friend who got drunk at a party and awoke to find a woman having sex with him. He was so shocked he just laid there until she got off and went away. He didn't ejaculate but he had had an erection.

As far as he (and me) are concerned he was raped. It has had an appalling impact on him. One of the things he always comes back to is, 'But I had a hard on, I had a hard on'. I think that haunts him in the same way that a female friend of mine who was assaulted often comes back to 'But I didn't say no, I didn't say it'.

Agree with Optimistic. Reflexes like that can be automatic. But he didn't consent and in my eyes that's rape, no matter what the gender of the victim.

OneMoreChap Fri 24-Aug-12 07:11:17

I've been sexually assaulted; and it was only after discussions on here I actually realised it. It was over 30 years ago.

As other posters say rape is penetration of mouth, vagina or anus, so a woman can't do that.

I was woken, stimulated. I was tired & sore. I said no, I didn't want to and tried to push my GF away, she was insistent and in the end I stopped struggling with her. She produced an orgasm from - and for - me, and I rolled away from her.

I told her in the morning never to do that again. I kept going out with her for a year, because I was so in love with her. But she assaulted me; I didn't want to, it wasn't comfortable and it felt sort of sleazy.

So, not fighting, and even orgasm is no evidence of consent. Saying no is very clear evidence of no consent. Previous consensual activity isn't consent for more activity. Not saying no, doesn't mean consent either.

I often wondered how women could see someone again who'd done that to them. FWIW, it wasn't an "Oh, that was great, I'd love to have that done again" type of experience. It was unpleasant, and made me think less of the woman. She? She thought I'd enjoy it... I didn't.

I didn't think about it too much at the time; looking back on it, even in the context of an otherwise loving relationship it was wrong. I can see why some women can be conflicted.

InvaderZim Fri 24-Aug-12 07:14:24

Like Tyranno I have a friend who had non-consensual sex forced upon him when he was drunk, but from someone he had been sleeping with regularly, so date rape. He didn't want to say no and risk a fight and waking up the others of us staying at the house. sad

seeker Fri 24-Aug-12 07:46:57

This is such a difficult subject. Yes of course men can be sexually assaulted, and it is unforgivable. And it would, I imagine, be practically impossible in the sort of cases described on this thread to get the law involved.

But, but, but.....and I expect people to be outraged by what I am about to say, I am incredibly wary of the issue being hijacked by men. There are constant attempts to do this with domestic violence- there are always people popping up saying "Men are victims too". Well, yes they are- but in general it's women who are on the receiving end. And in generql it's women who die or have their lives destroyed by DV. But there are people trying to make it look as if it's 50:50.

I don't really know where this thought is going, and I really don't mean any disrespect to the people who have shared their experiences here. But we do need to be aware- there are powerful forces at work in the field of gender politics who do a disservice to both women and men.

CailinDana Fri 24-Aug-12 07:51:03

Technically, under the law, a woman can't rape a man. But that is because the definition of rape doesn't take into account the intent or effect of rape, it just covers just the act of penetration by a penis and whether consent was obtained or not, which as I was saying in my thread is an outdated way of looking at rape. If you look at rape as being any sex act in which one person is subjected to something that they don't want, then yes, rape can easily happen to a man.

A male friend of mine was raped in a similar to way that other posters described. A friend of his housemate was interested in him, but he wasn't interested in her, at all. She was coming on strong on all night at a houseparty so he went to bed early to escape her. She turned up at his door, crying, wanting to "talk." Being a caring guy he let her in, they talked, and fell asleep on the bed. He woke up short while later to find her on top of him, raping him. He told her to stop and she didn't. He could have thrown her off but he didn't want to hurt her so she just carried on. He didn't orgasm and eventually she gave up and left and didn't speak to him again. Naturally the experience was absolutely horrible for him and I think the fact that it wouldn't be classed as a rape is totally wrong. She did rape him, plain and simple.

ChangeyMcName Fri 24-Aug-12 08:03:07

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CailinDana Fri 24-Aug-12 08:06:05

I see what you're saying seeker but I've never seen anything in the media/society to suggest men are trying to hijack this issue. In fact, I think because men legally can't be raped by a woman the actual effect female on male rape can have is totally hidden.

Something that really affected me as a student was a journal article I read about female on male child sexual abuse. The experiences adult men had had in seeking help for having been abused by a woman in childhood were horrific - HCPs had laughed at them, counsellors had told them they were "lucky" to have that sort of attention from a woman (bear in mind this was serious sadistic abuse), others were told that it wasn't possible for a woman to abuse a boy, that the woman was just being nice and that it was their problem that they hadn't enjoyed it, etc etc. Very few actually received any help at all, and even then they felt the help was inexpert and reluctant. That is a horrible state of affairs and not acceptable.

CailinDana Fri 24-Aug-12 08:08:30

Changey so if a female rape victim said "I didn't say stop because I was afraid of waking others" would you say "that wasn't rape then"?

seeker Fri 24-Aug-12 08:11:47

There is a big difference between an adult woman abusing a child, and a man swing "I didn't want to push her off because I might have hurt her" or "I don't want to say no too loudly in case inwoke people up" and therefore saying they were raped.

CailinDana Fri 24-Aug-12 08:12:58

So if a man is subjected to unwanted sexual activity he needs to hurt the woman who's doing it or it isn't rape?

TheFidgetySheep Fri 24-Aug-12 08:16:10

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ChangeyMcName Fri 24-Aug-12 08:24:53

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

ChangeyMcName Fri 24-Aug-12 08:28:05

And when did I say anything about hurting women??! A simple 'no' would have done. And if she ignored that and continued against his clearly defined wishes, then yes that is rape. But he didn't.

OneMoreChap Fri 24-Aug-12 08:30:27

ChangeyMcName Fri 24-Aug-12 08:24:53
How, in that situation, could the woman have possibly known she was 'raping' him? He CHOSE not to say no.

That needs picking up immediately.
Not saying NO must never, ever be confused with consent.

I'm astonished any genuine poster on here could say that.

advisemewisely Fri 24-Aug-12 08:31:13

*How, in that situation, could the woman have possibly known she was 'raping' him? He CHOSE not to say no. They were consensual sexual partners. I don't begin sexual activities with DP by asking his formal permission. As I said, you insult rape survivors by cheapening and diluting the definition of rape.

And no I don't think rape within relationships is ok. But I believe that in this particular situation the man was not raped. Utter nonsense.*

there are plenty of threads on here, that start with a woman saying she is unsure if it was rape, as she was so shocked she didnt say no, or because there were other people in the house she didnt say no, but that is always classed as rape.
if any person does not want to have sex it is rape.

mamamibbo Fri 24-Aug-12 08:31:48

i was sexually assaulted years ago, in my house. a male 'friend' came invited into my house, pinned me against the wall and did things to me that i dont want to explain

i dodnt shout/scream/kick him in the crotch because my 4 year old son was in the next room and i didnt want him to come in or make the guy angry, i said no, e knew i didnt want it and he carried on and left

was that not assault then?was he not wrong?

CailinDana Fri 24-Aug-12 08:31:58

A guy I was in a relationship with started having sex with me when I was asleep. I woke up and it took me a few minutes to get him off and run away. Do you consider what happened to me to be rape Changey?

OneMoreChap Fri 24-Aug-12 08:33:03

ChangeyMcName Fri 24-Aug-12 08:24:53
I don't begin sexual activities with DP by asking his formal permission.

Ridiculous. You don't have to obtain permission, it's not like it has to be in writing. You have to ascertain consent - or at least someone with a penis does. And you have to ascertain consent on each occasion... that's the way it works, or there would be no offence of marital rape.

CailinDana Fri 24-Aug-12 08:34:52

WRT to my friend Changey, he did tell her to stop and she didn't. I said that in my post. However, if a rape victim doesn't say stop or no it is still rape.

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