to find mediation both expensive and unproductive?

[hatesponge]

I'm currently going through the mediation process with my Ex in relation to both access and financial matters.

We have now had 3 appointments, for which we have each paid nearly £200 (so well over £1000 between us).

Absolutely nothing has been resolved and the appointments are, in essence, an opportunity for my Ex to throw allegations at me, while the mediator mostly sits there in silence.

At the last appt, my Ex sounded off at length about how unfair it was he didn't have access to the house (he is meant to be getting valuations etc done, and I said this could only be weekday evenings and weekends - as I work and I cant have him there when I'm not as he has a history of stealing...) so mediator says 'Oh, he needs more access then what can you do about that' As though he's being completely reasonable! Leaving me effectively to argue it, at the end of which mediator says 'Oh, you can't agree. We'll move on to something else'

I can see us sitting through another 3 or 4 sessions exactly the same, the mediator gives me the impression I am expected to agree to all of Ex's demands and I get frankly fed up having to spend hours of my time arguing it out with the both of them. Ex will never back down, mediator won't tell Ex anything, and I can't see how - unless I back down and let him have exactly what he wants, anything can or will be resolved!

So much for it being cheaper and more efficient than going to court...AIBU or has anyone else's experience been like this?!

[eurochick]

The mediator is there to facilitate your negotiation. If you don't feel he/she is doing that, change mediators.

I work in commercial law and have seen mediation work very successfully to bring parties to settlement far more cheaply than going to court. I've also seen it not work well.

From what you have posted, the mediator sounds like he/she is doing what a mediator is supposed to. In your example about access for valuations, the question is designed to get you thinking "outside the box". Could you arrange for a friend or family member to be there for the valuations? Could you take one morning off work and have however many valuers you need come through in that morning? Or ask ex to justify why the valuations can't happen at a weekend? There is no expectation that you will give into all the demands, but there is an expectation that there will be some compromise on both sides.

[CanISawItOff]

Mediation is, in essence, a supervised/refereed row discussion to sort out the issues arising from your split. If you can work it out in mediation it will save you a lot of aggravation and money in the long run.

If you feel he is being unreasonable, say so and say why, if you stay quiet and say nothing it will be one sided and you will walk away resenting going. Before your next meeting write down what you want out of it all and keep focused and to the point and please please please remember this isn't a game in which you win and lose this is your lives you're dealing with, you're BOTH hurting you're BOTH thinking the other is being unreasonable the quicker you can resolve it the better.

[hatesponge]

Re access to the house, as he's got form for taking stuff that doesn't belong to him I think he was lucky I agreed any access at all. and offering any week night after 7 and any time at weekends is pretty fair.

I can't keep taking time off work while he has people round (taking an afternoon off every fortnight for mediation is bad enough) I don't have any living family and my friends all work too, so what I'd suggested was already fair. What annoys me is that the mediator didn't point out to Ex he'd had plenty of opportunity to come to the property, but instead made it out as though I had been unfair!

I spend every meeting pointing out how he is lying (he said for example I have missed lots of mortgage payments, which is completely wrong!) and being unfair, and he just digs his heels in so mediator looks to me to compromise and it all seems totally one way.

I am not sure I have much faith in our mediator however it seems my only option is to continue or to start from scratch with another, neither option is that appealing...

[Changethatbulb]

YANBU. I hated Mediation, but it was the only way I was going to get a settlement and a divorce. My mediator doesn't sound as bad as yours so maybe go with the idea above and change mediators? (But then you are starting again, it's more money, etc... it's so difficult).

There was a lot of compromise involved and sometimes we did have to put aside an issue we couldn't agree on as time was limited. I agree with writing down what you want or need. Keep things as short as possible. State your case. Eventually the stale-mate has to be broken. I know someone who went to court to sort issues out. She had a very unfortunate outcome and a very, very big bill!

I was also constantly reminded not to tell the mediators anything that they would have to report like my ex earns more than he declares. That was a bitter pill to swallow.

We got there in the end but it cost us both a lot of money. I sympathise.

[CanISawItOff]

Can you sort it away from a mediator? Write to him. Keep everything neutral and formal and in writing, do it by email and refuse to enter into any discussion outside of this format until you get to a point where the hotheadedness has subsided.

[Changethatbulb]

x-posted.

Just wanted to say you seem to be being reasonable about access to the house. I don't know what the answer is though.

[hatesponge]

Sorting it out away from mediation is not an option unfortunately. To give you an idea of what he's like, we actually separated over 4 years ago, since which time he has:

-Made a racist allegation against my then (now ex) boyfriend and nearly got him sacked from his job
-Hit another guy over the head with a bottle for speaking to me in a way he didn't like
-Spent over £30k from our joint account, with nothing to show for it
-Instructed 3 different firms of solicitors (now on the 4th)to write to me about our finances etc, then as soon as he didn't like their advice gone and instructed another firm.

He will never compromise or back down, for example he wants our house sold, not because I cant afford to buy him out but because he doesnt want me to live there. This is the one point the mediator has backed me on, and pointed out to him that the court would let me buy him out. But he now thinks if he agrees that he's doing me a favour!

[CanISawItOff]

What an arse!

What has your solicitor advised? Is it time to take it to court if mediation is being so unproductive?

[bejeezusWC]

Yep, my experience of mediation is how you describe-exactly

I think mediation is a different experience if your X is in anyway a reasonable human being

Mine was abusive (as it sounds yours is in some ways) and totally felt like he used mediation as an opportunity to get someone else on his side/ to make me listen to all his crap. he told sooo many lies about me/our situation.

Mediator was completely gormless/uninterested/said very little

Have since found out mediation is NOT RECOMMENDED in abusive relationships

post in Relationships-loads of people with similar experience over there

[frumpet]

I dont understand why you cannot arrange for the valuations ? Surely your ex could give the names of the people who he was going to use , you could ring them and then organise for them to come round at a time that suits you . You could ask them to send a copy of the valuation to him . I dont understand why he has to be physically there ? Its not as if they are going to seriously undervalue the house is it , the more it goes for the better for everyone involved surely ?

I really do feel for you though , it must be so galling spending so much money and not seeing any tangible return . I second what others have said about looking into finding another mediator .

[bejeezusWC]

have just read your posts more carefully

seriously-dont go to mediation with this guy

let your solicitor handle it-have you got a good/understanding solicitor? Does she know your Xs history and behaviour?

[frumpet]

Sorry hadnt read the full thread , i see you dont actually want to move . At the next session i would offer him the money that you can offer him to buy him out of the house in front of the mediator . Let him explain to the mediator why he is such an unreasonable knob.

[hatesponge]

frumpet, he insisted on accompanying any agents to do the valuations (which the mediator considered to be fair) - although I dont want to sell we still have to get the house valued to work out how much I have to pay him - although that of itself is problematic as our valuations currently differ by about £70000 hence we are now going through the whole process with a new lot of agents!

bejeezus - Im a lawyer myself - though in an entirely different field - so don't have a solicitor, I have done everything myself to save money. Which has been fine up to now. Ex's solicitors applied to the court for an order for sale, it went to a hearing, judge referred us to mediation, and here we are. I wanted to avoid court because I thought a sensible mediator would persuade/convince Ex to negotiate and be reasonable, however the one I have couldn't persuade the sun to set!

[bejeezusWC]

it is not their job to 'persuade' anyone though....they just facilitate

so they dont care if any agreement is fair, or if one party was bullied into it. They just want you to reach an agreement- any agreement

I think you need to get 3 valuations done yourself- offer him half of the median average (minus half of the value of any assets he is keeping, plus half the value of any other assets you are keeping) - offer him that in court

he will reject that and want his own valuations done. Arrange a day off work to facilitate that. Give him plenty of notice and maybe 3 dates to choose from. then he will make you an offer which will involve you handing over much more money than you should or want to

Offer him the difference of the 2 deals

If you can afford it, I think you should get someone other than yourself to represent you

IME it is worth being present for the valuation, because I know my estate agents where sympathetic to my situation and so gave me low values. They said that these days it is really hard to give an accurate valuation (which is how they can morally do it) because it is SO dependant on what else is available in the area at the time you would [theoretically] put the house on the market

[hatesponge]

We have already each got 2 valuations, mine were both the same. His were £30-70k more, mediator has now told us to get further valuations done before the next appt which will be a further waste of time.

Even if we agree the house value, there will then be further argument over the cost of building works (all valuations are being done on house 'finished' rather than in present condition), the division of equity, etc etc. I can see this going on ad infinitum. Which suits my Ex because he is currently living rent free at his parents whilst I pay the £1500 per month mortgage (in consequence of which no I really cant afford a solicitor. Maybe if I start to feel out of my depth, but not at this stage)

[bejeezusWC]

I think you have to weigh up the cost of your mental and physical health, which might (?) be affected by the stress and upset of battling this out.

I paid out more than I thought was fair, so that we could break from each other and move on

is he paying solicitors fees? thats the other option isnt it-keep battling and battling until the solicitors fees he will be paying out weighs what he will 'win' from you. But I suspect it isnt so much about the money for him, as 'winning'??

Just refuse to go to mediation any morestupid fucking mediator--what is she going to suggest if these valuations are very different to those you have already-get more???

Take it back to court-let the judge decide-get it over with

[ImperialBlether]

My ex and I went to a solicitor's about a divorce.

They said "What about the house?" "That's sorted."

"What about the kids?"
"He can see them whenever he wants - overnights, whatever."

"What about child support?"
"It's sorted."

"Well then," they said, "we think you need mediation. That'll cost £120 plus VAT per hour (this was 12 years ago)."

[Changethatbulb]

I have read the further replies. He is an arse that will never 'allow' you to win. Further mediation would seem to me to be a waste of money as it will end up in court anyway.

I also experienced problems because our extended house wasn't finished. He got sympathetic estate agents, and disagreed on value. We only finally agreed out of court as there were other assets of his involved that I promised not to go after.

So yeah, I 'got' the house with a large mortgage outstanding. And he is living rent free with his family.

[Horsemad]

What happens if you refuse to participate in mediation? Will it have to go to court?

[bejeezusWC]

Yes-they try to get you to come to your own settlements in mediation because it is cheaper for them (i think)

[hatesponge]

Bejeezus - he is looking to get up to £100k out of me. It will take a long time for his solicitors fees to be anywhere near that sadly (although I believe he has already paid out well over £5k)

I have already paid for the next appt. Am thinking of putting cards on table at the start of it and saying I find it a waste of time, and unless our issues gets resolved (or largely resolved) in that session I'm not interested in carrying on to any further appts.

That means it will go back to court, and Ex's solicitors will try and get costs out of me because of my failure to mediate. However, on the basis the solicitors themselves made no attemtpt to negotiate with me or to respond to various letters/offers made by me, I think they are on dodgy ground.

Change you're dead right. He won't let me win. Ever. He is massively fucked off that I have lost a lot of weight in the last year, and would be furious if I started dating anyone (despite fact it is 4 YEARS since we split - it might as well be 4 months).

[hatesponge]

Mediation is cheaper than going to court because you're not paying for solicitors fees etc BUT in my situation it's actually more expensive, because I'm representing myself.

[Meglet]

Mine was great! Abusive XP got angry and refused to calm down so she chucked him out. Last time I saw him and his unreasonable behaviour is on record for good .