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AIBU?

The old chestnet about holidays in term time because they are cheaper.

131 replies

troisgarcons · 19/01/2012 21:55

School Y4/5/6 meeting this evening about changes in Ofsted and the way information will be reported to parents (and parental responsibility in supporting educational standards and methods).

To summarise, every child will have an individual "flightpath" according to ability but some things are governemnt measures and therefore immovable.

One of which was attendance. So once we'd got past the hysterical parent ranting about her particular case of chicken pox which dipped her child below the target threshold of 95% and illness not being a childs fault and the heckler spouting disability discrimination sigh we had She-who-wants-holiday-in-term-time spouting at every opportunity.

It got to the point where I was having fantsies about ripping her tongue out and after and hour of this - the Head made it clear there are 365 days in a year, of which 190 are school days , therefore there are a rather large amount of days not at school to have "family time". And still the parent kept on and on and on and on .....after an hour of her chirping in at every opportunity I pointed out that if she wished to remove her child for one or two weeks that was her prerogative but her selfishness impinged on my child learning as when her child returned lessons would have to be summarised.

I asked how she would feel if her childs teachers were feckless enough to book holiday in term time and leave her child without continuity of education.

She said "well, you just sound like a teacher and thats your career choice so I expect you to be in school when I want you there!!!"

So I played devils advocat and said "are you saying my right to family life is lesser then yours?"

To whit she said "you signed up for it"

So for all of you (including me) who do look @ school statistics - just remember - that with the best will in the world, there are mardy parents who just do not co-opt into the educations system and will probably have monumental hissy fits when little Jaydeen-Beckham and Beyonce-Chardonay'ah dont achieve anything much at the end of their school career and leave with a monumental sense of entitlement that the entire world owes them a living.

and breath

AIBU to get that off my chest? Grin

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WorraLiberty · 19/01/2012 22:00

Did you tell her you're not a teacher? Confused

I can't see her point.

If people can't afford to book holidays during the school holidays, they should spend longer saving up.

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cookcleanerchaufferetc · 19/01/2012 22:01

IMO, YABU.

Teachers sign up for the job .... No term time holidays. Just like emergency services sign up for shift work .... No free Saturday night every single week.

Kids who go on holiday during school may do worse, but not always. There are other factors.

I agree that once the kid gets to secondary school then term time holidays could have an effect. But until then, I will take my kids out of school if I chose to ...

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Busyoldfool · 19/01/2012 22:02

No, YANBU. It can't have been a very pleasant meeting for you or many people there.

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Busyoldfool · 19/01/2012 22:03

And if everybody did it?

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Freshlettice · 19/01/2012 22:07

I don't like the way the mum spoke, but it is stupidly expensive to go away in hol time. We don't go on holiday at all because we don't and can't take them out of school and it's just too expensive for us in the hols. So my kids miss out. Camping in UK is ok, but the school hols are in August when the weather is crap usually. Wish the summer hols were July and September.

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troisgarcons · 19/01/2012 22:08

Did you tell her you're not a teacher?


Didn't have the opportunity - she was ranting about her finances by then ..... this was sort of provoked by the Head pointing at me and saying "Ah, Mrs Trois! Tell them what its like at secondary school"


I didn't quite get to full swing and tell her that as all secondaries (locally) are now academy and take the status of independent schools, that she would be told to royally fuck off, take her kid with her and HE as no one else will touch her with a barge pole from September ..... The constant mantra (locally) is "don't like our rules? you signed up to them! If you've changed your mind - here's the door"

The EWO comes in now at 94.99% attendance .... thats only 6 or 7 days off a year.

Might not be the same country wide. And they do prosecute without valid reason - and they do get convictions. So all I can say to any parent who fancies a cheap week on the Costas is "hey, it's your criminal record and your job prospects"

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FourEyesGood · 19/01/2012 22:09

I'm a teacher. Yes, I signed up for the job (and its pension, but that's another rant) and I accept that I can't go on holiday in term time. That's fine; I get loads of official holiday time! Grin

But, cookcleanerchauffeuretc, when you sent your child to school, you committed to (or "signed up for") sending him/her to school and ensuring good attendance. Your arguments are poor, weakened further by your claim that you will take them out of school if you chose (sic) to.

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BeerTricksP0tter · 19/01/2012 22:16

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Lucy88 · 19/01/2012 22:16

I must admit that I have never quite got the argument that it is ok to take kids out of primary school for holidays in term time, but not those in secondary.

In secondary school, kids are more likely to be able to use their initiative and catch up themselves - asking the teacher, doing more homework, catching up on assignments, but primary school children do not have this option. Its the teacher who has to be responsible for ensuring they catch up on what they have missed - the children can't do it for themselves.

Imagine if all children (poss 30) in a class were taken out for 2 weeks in term-time every year. Thats a hell of a lot of catching up for the teacher to do with 30 kids.

There is a direct link between attendance and achievement/attainment and schools can't be seen to be turning a blind-eye to holidays in term-time because they are cheaper.

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Bogeyface · 19/01/2012 22:23

The problem we have is that we cant have holidays in the summer in the holidays because DH isnt allowed to take holidays then. We either have to go in the spring (which because we either go in this country or N. France, is dodgy weatherwise to the point of it not being worth going) or during term time.

Whilst the schools themselves are understanding and have sanctioned time off whenever we have requested it, it does count against their attendance when it isnt their fault. Either we dont go away or they miss school. We cant afford to go further afield so a winter break in the Canaries or similar isnt doable either. We make sure that we get it as close the holidays as possible and never more than once in 2 years, but still......

However, I would want to smack that woman too as it doesnt sound like she has a genuine issue as we have, she would surely have said so, just a bad attitude.

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troisgarcons · 19/01/2012 22:40

Smack her? If I could have got away with it, she would have been on a slab and having her gizzards removed.

Punctuality was another issue .... this is primary so by and large children are at the hands of parents. If you have a parent who isn't particularly timebound on a regular basis and the child turns up 10 mins late, the lesson is suspended whilst the teacher ask why, the child gets settled, then has to be told what the rest of her class are doing - so that takes a chunk out of the other 29 kids learning time.

For spot-on-parents, you do start to build a picture of how others affect and detract from your own childs school experience.

Factor in that the habitually late child also has to run the gauntlet of opening the classroom door, having 29 heads swivel, the embarassment that causes, again the hanging the coat up, sitting down, the gettng the correct books out ... then the recap of what 29 have just been told.

Says it all really, that there are sole employed attendance officers who spend 8 hours a day ringing round in relatively small schools of 1,000 pupils

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HoudiniHissy · 19/01/2012 22:40

There a a shed load of people being told that during the Olympics this year that they are NOT allowed to take any annual leave due to work...

When I was growing up MOST people didn't have holidays away. We didn't 'miss out'.

It's setting a level of expectation and attaching some kind of 'right' to it and thinking that you are hard done by. You're not. It's rampant consumerism.

There was no restriction on taking kids out of school back then either.

I've never been to Disney. My parents were relatively well off. I didn't grow up feeling that my parents have let me down. I can't justify a £1000 for a few days for DS and me to go there, so I won't. Am I letting him down? No I am not. Regardless of the flamingly smug adverts.

The last 2 years I took him to a friends cottage in wales for a week. Froze our butts off, got drenched, but had a lovely time. together. just him and me.

He's 6. These are the only holidays he's had. MY time with HIM, be it here or getting soaked in Snowdonia is what my boy wants.

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Bogeyface · 19/01/2012 22:46

If that was aimed at me Hissy, the last time we took the kids to France they went to Bayeux, the Normandy landing beaches, the war museum, up the Eiffel Tower (twice, dont ask!) the Louvre (where they were totally underwhelmed by the Mona Lisa!) and Notre Dame. They learned more french in 2 weeks than the in the previous year at school, including alot of very interesting swear words we later found out! They travelled on the Metro, and learnt alot about French food and culture.

Their teachers were thrilled that they had seen so much and the kids were allowed make projects out of it.

Not all holidays abroad are either at Disney or involve the kids being dumped in a kids club while mum and dad get pissed by the pool.

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HoudiniHissy · 19/01/2012 22:48

No, not aimed at ANYONE. Just saying that Kids are FINE not being taken anywhere...

Sorry if you thought it was...

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HoudiniHissy · 19/01/2012 22:49

That sounds like a FAB holiday Bogey!

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BeerTricksP0tter · 19/01/2012 22:50

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Bogeyface · 19/01/2012 22:55

Sorry, a bit sensitive about it Hissy! I have been had a go at before because everyone assumes holiday=lounging around on the beach while the kids are in the Tiger Club or whatever. I HATE beach holidays!

I dont mind the odd day relaxing by the pool, but everyday for a fortnight would have my brain dribbling out of my ears!

It was a fab holiday. We had a week in Normandy and a week in Paris (which was about 3 days too long tbh, should have been 10 and 4 in hindsight) and it was wonderful :) The best moment was in the Louvre and DD, 4yrs at the time, pushed her way to front of the crowd in front of the Mona Lisa and said, at the top her voice "IS THAT IT?!". Cue me and mine bent double, and the security guards and US tourists looking massively pissed off!

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Backinthebox · 19/01/2012 23:02

OP, when you go on your holiday in the school holidays, I'll be taking you there. I work in the travel industry, and as such it is nigh-on impossible to get time off in the school holidays. So I WILL be taking my children out. I'll do it without making a fuss, but if the school want to make a fuss, it's up to them. I won't deprive my children of holidays because some parents get a bit hysterical about it.

My parents took me and my siblings out of school every year to go on holiday. They also took me out of school for riding competitions. It didn't affect my academic record at all - a science degree and a job flying people round the world weren't compromised by a few days out here and there. In fact I think the sense of adventure I gained through travels with my family in a small tent or caravan far beyond the places normal people would drive to, the ability to learn a smattering of words in a foreign language and communicate and play with other children, the cultures and countries we learnt about, and the general belief that anything was possible have all stood me in good stead as an adult. Being taken out for competitions gave me a competitive edge that frankly a no-hope comprehensive in the 1980s did not give any of it's pupils, and I went on as an adult to compete at national level.

If you think that another parent bettering their children may impact on your's - if you can't beat them, why not join them? If it doesn't fit your philosophy in life, don't moan about it, stick with your rules and let others get on with their's.

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loubielou31 · 19/01/2012 23:03

I think (as do most local authorities it would seem) that there are times when there are lots of very good reasons for a term time holiday and in those circumstances absence would be authorised. But the price really isn't one of them just go on a cheaper holiday in the school holiday time. Just because you've not spent two weeks sunning yourself in Portugal but have been camping to West Wales it's still a family holiday and just as valuable for family bonding and shared experiences if perhaps a little wetter. (It's character building I was always told Grin)
I do however feel that threats of prosecutions are just scaremongering/ bullying and that gets my back up in that "you can't tell me what to do" way.

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McHappyPants2012 · 19/01/2012 23:04

I just book holidays when both me and dh can get hoilday off from work

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loubielou31 · 19/01/2012 23:10

See, there are already loads of people on this thread with (what I think are) proper reasons for a term time holiday and none of them are because it's cheaper. I believe a family holiday wherever it may be is an important part of a child's life and feeling that belonging of a shared experience and building memories.
I hope that their requests if they'd made them before are accepted.

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troisgarcons · 19/01/2012 23:10

musing Given our education is free .... if we had to scrimp and save for it, like families in 3rd world countries do - would some parents treat it with such flagrant disregard?

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workshy · 19/01/2012 23:12

I am not allowed any time off at easter, christmas or october half term

there are 6 of us on the same grade who are not allowed to take holiday at the same time as each other

5 of us have school aged children and therefore want time off in the school holidays

I take my children out of school so I actually get to see them

this year we are going to barcelona for 2 days and then beach holiday for 4 days

other than the 4 days out of school each year (I always do it in a week where there is either a bank holiday or a training day) they have 100% attendance

I still got a letter 'saying not authorised' -I'm still going

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Bogeyface · 19/01/2012 23:15

Trois, I very much doubt it.

Its like the NHS, we slag it off but if it wasnt there then we would be in the same situation as the US where people die because they cant afford care, and that is a supposedly developed country.

But just because I take my children out of school occasionally for what I believe are enriching family trips, doesnt mean that I dont think their education is important, infact I think it compliments their education. I feel that they learn a hell of alot when we travel and thats why I am ok with them doing it in term time when we have no choice but to go then.

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4madboys · 19/01/2012 23:19

well my dp cant always get time off work in the school holidays, he cant this year, so we are taking 4 of ours out of school for a week, i dont know if it will be authorised yet, but we have booked the holiday so they will be 'ill' if its not authorised!

we always used to have time off school for holidays and still did fine educatio wise. the problem is ofsted who lump the authorised and unauthorised absences together when judging schools.

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