to be completely baffled by Primary School admissions

[PrincessScrumpy]

Our catchment school is a 30 minute walk (with a 4yo) at least but closer school is over subscribed. It's done as the crow flies - well I'm not a crow so cannot fly over the secure airfield to get dd to school. Anyway, I've accepted that we will have to keep our 2 cars (financially I had hoped to be a 1 car family). However, the catchment school is also over subscribed so I looked at others.

I have been advised to put a safe option down - well, even the local less good primary is over subscribed so what can I do? It looks like they need a new school in the area!

[witherhills]

It's a minefield!
I don't understand it.
Our nearest school is about 500m away, but looking at the stats the closest child to get in was 300m away.

[PomBearAtTheGatesOfDawn]

We live about 300 yards ----> that way from one school, but when the forms came for my three youngest (by turns, they aren't triplets!) "our" school is apparently the one that's two miles

[witherhills]

I'm just looking at this application now
we have more classes being provided for next year, but nothing confirmed yet, so on the application it says that all the schools that have been in talks with LA have asterisks. Our local school doesn't have an asterisk, but on the schools website they say they have been in talks, and might have another class
How the bloody hell are you supposed to know
I'm just going to have to phone them

[witherhills]

thank Custardcake,that makes sense, very helpful

I have just called them, the woman was lovely, but not very knowledgeable and apparently there are 8 schools who could have another class, but only one confirmed, which is our local one.
Our local one is the worst one in the area, but they have improved significantly since last year

[PrincessScrumpy]

Not sure what a "safe" option is when all schools are over-subscribed!?

[lilyliz]

must say we sound really lucky here,there are 2 schools one at each side of the town.The main road cuts straight through the middle of town so which school you go to depends which side of the road you live on,simples

[ljny]

Can anyone offer any advice for over-subscribed areas like London? Where do you find this mythical "safe option" that you're sure to get in? My GD will be in reception next year. My DD and her DP like the closest school well enough, but she's now unlikely to get in as distances are shrinking - a few years ago, their street would have been "safe" but not in the last couple of years. They're even further away from any other local school so they can list them, but she won't get it in. The borough has two very unpopular schools, miles away - those are the only ones that ever have places left. Help!!!

[CardyMow]

Reception year in my DS's primary this September - 60 pupil intake...45 siblings!!! I know of at least 8 children that haven't got into this school, OR the other 4 primaries in this end of the very large (city-sized) town...they are having to travel 7 miles to school...which exploits an LEA loophole in the transport to school scheme in our LEA. The loophole is that for a child in YR - Y2, they get free transport if their school is between 2 and 6 miles away from their house. Therefore, the dc that have been placed in a school 7 miles away DO NOT get free transport!!!

Their parents are having to drive them to a school in special measures even though they live within less than half a mile of an outstanding school - and have bought their houses with this school in mind - a school which EVERY OTHER YEAR for the last 10 years has had a 'furthest distance admitted' of 3 miles away, but because of the HUGE amount of siblings this year, only had 15 places available. The usual amount admitted per yr group of 60 dc as sibling is 10. This year 45!!

[PrincessScrumpy]

the school we love takes 30 pupils and had 22 siblings this year - hoping it'll be less next year!

[IndigoBell]

Honestly put the school you want the most down as 1st.

You never know whether that will be the school that will be forced to have a bump year and take an extra 30 kids.

And the council don't know yet - they don't even know how many kids are going to apply for places in the borough until all the admissions are in.

[PomBearAtTheGatesOfDawn]

Just to muddy the waters even further - it was in our local paper this week that a child with an older brother in a particular school has been refused a place there, and has had an appeal refused too, and has to go to a different school. This is the second case like that recently, the other famiy had three siblings already at the school and the youngest one has been refused. It must be an absolute nightmare for the families :(

[AMML]

I think the English system is very confusing. Whilst it's not perfect here in Scotland, it definitely does seem easier & dare I say it, fairer to get your kids into the local school.

Here (Scotland), every school non-denominational (ND) & catholic (RC) has a catchment area. In effect, this means every household has 2 catchment schools.

Priority is given to kids in the catchment area with sibblings at the school followed by catchment kids without sibblings. Next it's kids outwith the catchment area with sibblings already at the school & last is outwith catchment with no sibblings. Distance from house to school would come into effect if the school was over subscribed.

For the RC schools baptised catholics within the catchment area are the first priority and then it's the same priority system as ND schools.

To summarise, catholic kids are more or less guaranteed a place at their catchment RC school, as are non-catholic with sibblings. Often, non-catholics without sibblings are refused entry to RC schools if there is high demand. However, as far as I'm aware, all kids within the catchment area are guaranteed a place at their local ND school.

If parents do their homework before buying / renting a house, ensuring their home is in the catchment area of their desired school, they're unlikely to be disappointed when it's time to enroll their child into primary education. The main problem here is when parents try to place their kids in schools outwith their catchment area, especially if it's an over subscribed school.

[IndigoBell]

But how do they ensure they don't have more than 30 kids in a class if they take everyone in the catchment?

[Minus273]

They have to create other classes, or even jiggle it using conposite classes. I think it is disgusting children not getting free transport to school when the parents have been forced to send them to one so far away. What if they had no car or no money?

[nooka]

We have the everyone is in system where I live (in Canada). What happens is that until the first day of term no one knows how many children are going to turn up, or quite how many teachers they will need. The first week is spent figuring it out. Last year they had so many unexpected children that they had to have an extra two teachers and it took a week to find out which class everyone had been allocated. The other way they cope is to have lots of mixed year group classes so they have more flexibility. It's a bit weird but it's nice having the guarantee of your local school.

When I applied for reception in the UK (several years ago now) I put in applications for all the schools I could cycle to in fifteen minutes (eight excluding the faith schools). Thus I was not surprised when they all said they were over subscribed. It seemed a fairly meaningless term.

[IndigoBell]

You do get free transport to school if you've been offered one over 2 miles away.

See I think I'd be more unhappy with a school having to cope with however many kids turn up. That doesn't sound at all great.

[Minus273]

I commented as someone said their LEA didn't provide transport for schools 7 or more miles away.

[Llanarth]

In terms of filling out the form, use your first two choices to state the schools that you really like best and that, if you're lucky on distance, you stand a possible chance of getting into
Use the last preference for a school you might be less keen on but that you are definitely close enough to get a place at.
If you don?t put a safe option on your form then you run the risk of not getting any of your choices and being allocated an undersubscribed (so probably not good) school a long way away.

__

A slight caveat to that advice. There are two schools in our village, and a school in the next village. We have been advised categorically not to use our third choice at all (i.e. NOT put down the school in the next village) because if we do, and our first two schools are oversubscribed, we will automatically get allocated the school in the next village and our local authority will be very happy with that, as we get a tick on their statistics to say we were allocated a school we 'chose' to go to. There's also a suggestion that by putting down a third choice, we are more likely to not end up in one of our first and second choice schools (think about it, if you were administering the admissions and two forms come in from two children living next door to each other, and there is only one place available in the local school, you wouldn't give the local school place to the child who had given an alternative school as one of their choices, would you?).

The headteacher of our local school told us last week that there had NEVER been a case where a child who didn't get into either of the village schools but had put a third choice down, had ever been successful on appeal, whereas ALL children who only put two schools down, but had been 'allocated' the other school, had eventually got into one of the local schools on appeal.

Sorry to complicate things further!

[DottyandSpottyWot]

I think the Scottish system is a lot easier to understand, as each Local Authority divides their areas into catchments, and thats the school you go to! Of course, parents have a right to apply for a school outwith their catchment (including a school in another authority). Our council area has had a lot of PPP funding, so one school in a popular area was re-built and can hold 3 classes at each stage, so all catchment kids get in and it has 25% of its roll as placing requests, the next nearest school didnt get a rebuilt or extension, and was oversubscribed for catchment places, but they are all getting in as they will have 40 kids in a class with 2 teachers!!

[Llanarth]

Custard - I realise it's done by computer and there is not meant to be any discretion (which is why I said 'There is also a suggestion' - it was actually the headteacher who 'suggested' this). In the scenario I presented, the two children live next door to each other, so neither is closer to the school. In that situation it will either come down to a toss of a coin, or an element of human discretion will be introduced. Who knows? I don't but if it does come down to discretion, I'd wager that the child who put the third choice would be more likely to end up at the third choice school, as then both children would appear in the stats as "having been allocated their choice of schools".

I do think my final point, when you are in an appeal situation - which is all about discretion - having only two choices rather than three on your form (in a situation where the third choice school has vacant places) would give you a better chance of getting into one of your first two choices, for the reasons above. And this is backed up by the anecdotal experience of the headteacher.

In my situation, the 'third' choice school is undersubscribed, so I will just put down two schools on my form, knowing full well that if I don't get into either of them, my local authority will automatically allocate me to that undersubscribed school (rather than to another oversubscribed school in a village even further away). So there is not much point wasting my third choice on that school (since if I'm going to get it, I'll get it with or without specifying it), when there is a chance, however small, it might work against me in the allocation process, or in appeal.

I think this just goes to show that we all need to look into the specific situation in our own areas before deciding how to use our choices, as I would obviously put a third choice down if my third choice school was also oversubscribed (for the reasons you've given in your original post - not wanting to be sent even further afield to a failing school.)