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WIBU to email this to a manager at work?

(23 Posts)
missymarmite Sun 02-Oct-11 00:23:32

Dear Miss,

I recently applied for the position of (better paid job in the same organisation I work at currently). I believed I ticked all the boxes in the Job specification, due to my experience and qualifications. Therefore, I was very disappointed to not be called to interview.

In the interests of Continuous Professional Development, would it be possible to feedback on my CV and cover letter, in order to allow me the opportunity to rectify any deficiencies in my application for future reference? (and perhaps get a sex change as you only ever seem to employ young males for a job which can be done equally well by either gender)

Yours sincerely,


missymarmite Sun 02-Oct-11 00:25:04

I missed out the bit that said a colleague with less credentials than me, who does the same job as me, WAS offered an interview. He happens to be young, and male (obviously)

squeakytoy Sun 02-Oct-11 00:25:20

hopefully the W is for would and not was...


MrsTerryPratchett Sun 02-Oct-11 00:25:24

grin As long as you send a copy to your union as well.

BoysAreLikeDogs Sun 02-Oct-11 00:25:56

I really really hope you didn't send that

missymarmite Sun 02-Oct-11 00:27:56

would! Ha! just imagine the face on reading that! grin

AgentZigzag Sun 02-Oct-11 00:29:41

YANBU smile

So long as you PS them a 'I didn't want your poxy job anyway, so you can cock right off'.

midlandsmumof4 Sun 02-Oct-11 00:33:01

With Boys..... shock. Do you still have a job btw?

missymarmite Sun 02-Oct-11 00:37:24

Me? I still have my old job. It's better than nothing alright, but I still feel like I've been slapped in the face. Management did something similar to me earlier in the year with another job, and they never even bothered telling those of us who weren't called to interview. I mean, you kind of expect it when you are an external applicant, but as a colleague, you would imagine you deserve at least the courtesy of an email, not to just hear it through the grapevine.

WilsonFrickett Sun 02-Oct-11 00:39:36

Em...... Cut sentence 2. Reword 4 particularly if the job involved any element of clear communication skills. Keep the brackets if you fancy a brouhaha.

mynewpassion Sun 02-Oct-11 01:13:36

I wouldn't write that letter. I would set up an appt with my boss or HR and talk to them about professional advancement.

missymarmite Sun 02-Oct-11 09:51:02

I have spoken to my line manager at my last appraisal. However, year after year, nothing changes, nothing gets done. In my department there is no room for advancement. The last big boss was a man, very approachable, very reasonable, and since he left the atmosphere and the general wellbeing of all staff has gone down. Now the big boss isn't available or approachable. she has created more management positions, most of which we don't even know what they are for. She has filled all minus one of the managerment positions with women, clones of each other, with their power suits and high heals and manager speak. Some people get advancement, because their face fits, and other people who could do the job ten times better don't.

WilsonFrickett Sun 02-Oct-11 10:01:43

Riiight. I thought you said upstream the job you wanted went to a man though?

All this may be true. Or, your new big boss may value different skills and attributes than your previous big boss. Or, you may have all these skills and attributes but you may not be showing them in a way that's going to get you recognition. I don't mean to be a caaah but if you are regularly expressing the feelings in your last post then you aren't going to get called for interview.

When's the last time you did something over and above your 'normal' job description, and what did you do about it?

Blueberties Sun 02-Oct-11 10:05:17

Hi there, you need to start writing it down and talking to a union lawyer. If yhou are absolutely sure you are being discriminated against there is a law against it. Be honest with yourself - are you sure about this? If so, take it further. The squeaky wheel gets the grease.

BlowHole Sun 02-Oct-11 10:08:52

You need to look for another job, and get yourself working for a company that appreciates you.

MeMySonAndI Sun 02-Oct-11 10:11:52

" (and perhaps get a sex change as you only ever seem to employ young males for a job which can be done equally well by either gender)"

Did you really put the above on the letter? Where you at the interview of that man? do you have a good relationship with her?

Please don't forget that some young people may have a lot of potential, and also, that people always check how the new person is going to fit within the team dynamics and she may think she won't be able to work with you in a higher role.

I'm sorry to say this, but I think that you may need to apply for other jobs, you seem to have got to a dead end in this one as you were not even offered an interview. Having said that, at my place of work we usually get between 80-200 application for position advertised so... it may also be that with so much people asking for the same job... you were not at the top of the list.

StealthPolarBear Sun 02-Oct-11 10:15:26

Oh come on people, is it not clear the OP is ranting on MN - drafting the letter she'd love to send?
OP ywnbU, but it might be the kiss of death to your career grin

Oh and I have recently contacted someone to say "I feel my application evidenced that I fit all of the essential criteria and 2 of 3 of the desirable criteria. The job seemed very exciting and interesting, therefore I was extremely disappointed to have not been selected for interview. Please may I request some feedback on my application?"

Don't see how that's unprofessional.

Blueberties Sun 02-Oct-11 10:16:16

Also don't forget that a lot of promotion is about face-fittery, and quite a lot has really nothing at all to do with the capabilities of the person.

In fact if you are supremely capable at your current job they might not want to move you, in which case you need to get a bit agitato.

YellowDave Sun 02-Oct-11 10:28:15

The thing is its unlikely that there is overt disrcimination going on, at least at the stage of selecting who will be called for interview. My dh does a lot of interviewing where he works and basically any information on the application form that could identify the candidate is removed in the interests of being fair.

If you are sure you have more qualifications and experience than the other guy doing the same job as you then look at how you fill in the applicaiton form. You might be selling yourself short (women often do this whereas men are better at blowing their own trumpet) or your spelling and grammar might be letting you down (this would stop me short listing someone regardless of their qualifications tbh). From your later post about how many women are high up in the organisation I don't think you can seriously blame this on being female.

I wouldn't send the letter. What I would do is send an email to your boss / head of HR / whoever is relevant in your situation saying you have been overlooked for promotion on a couple of occasions and would like to make an appointment to talk through your cv and applications to see how you can improve things before the next round of applications.

missymarmite Sun 02-Oct-11 14:28:57

Thanks for the advice. Of course I haven't sent the email! I intend to send it, omitting the brackets, and perhaps tweek it so that it just sounds like a reasonable request for feedback.

They don't remove personal information from the application. It wasn't a form-filling exercise, we were asked to write a cover letter and attach a CV.

As for what have I done above and beyond. Loads, everyday. Don't want to go into too much detail. But fair enough to say, maybe I don't blow my own trumpet.

I think that maybe I can't compete. Bringing up a child single-handed, while working full time and studying for a degree part-time, at the same time as going for any and all training opportunites offered at work, being helpful, conscientious, hardworking. That just can't beat the great skill of being young, unencumbered with children, and available to volunteer your free time. Even if you aren't as good at the actual job you are employed for, being free will always give you the edge. I would have thought that women would be more supportive, but they aren't at all.

I made some bad decisions in my life and career when I was younger. I feel now that however hard I work, however good I am, I am going to pay for those mistakes for the rest of my life, and always be poor, always struggling.

Ah, well. At least the sun is shining. I've had my rant now. I will move on, try harder and they can stick their poxy job!

HerHissyness Sun 02-Oct-11 14:37:44

Love, i feel for you. is there anyway you can change organisations? sometimes you reach as far as you can go in a place, and need a new organisation to take you at face value and see potential in you.

I find this stagnation often happens when you go in at a low level, and work yourself up. Sometimes the management still see you as the entry level person.

You are doing so much, you really are a dynamo! I am in awe of all that you are achieving!

Oh and BTW, I have had generally less than favourable treatment at the hands of female bosses. don't take it personally.

IF you manage to leave, then request an exit meeting with the person that is above all the people involved in not selecting you for this job and gently point out to them your reasons for taking your experience elsewhere.

YellowDave Sun 02-Oct-11 15:06:06

The other thing with being older is that while you might have more experience and more lines on the cv, the younger guy has probably got more experience / lines on his cv per year if you see what I mean? And they might feel more potential than you.

This is the state of play everywhere really tbh - doesn't make it any easier for you but the way of the world. You say you do over and above what you should for your job but is this being recognised? Perhaps you need to make it more obvious to people. Or go on a course to update yourself in a specific area where others are not as good maybe?

Def send a briefer request for feedback though. Its the least they can do. If I were you though I would think hard about who to send it to. You want someone who will be honest and give it to you warts and all. No point sending it to someone gutless who will just say 'ooh there were so many applicants you just were unlucky' - you want proper clear constructive criticism that you can act on to improve you applications even if it isn't nice to hear.

Good luck

WilsonFrickett Sun 02-Oct-11 18:59:17

Blow that trumpet! No-one else is going to do it for you.
Get someone you trust but who is a hard ass and at least a level above you to look at your CV.
'Studying for a degree part-time' - link your studies to the workplace, show how doing additional work on your own time can benefit the company's bottom line.

And yes, look for something else. If you are really clear that people with less experience are being recruited for higher level jobs (and by clear I mean be brutally honest with yourself) then it could be because the company can get away with paying them less than they would have to do if they promoted you. Doing the stuff above will get your CV in a great shape, anyway.

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