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In Thinking That Our Local A&E Are Letting Kids Down & Want To Do Something About It?????

(57 Posts)
rockinhippy Mon 12-Sep-11 12:56:05

& if IANBU - asking if anyone know WHAT & HOW I can try & change things ????

Back ground……

Locally we have a new state of the art Childrens Hospital, but no separate Kids A&E - We DID have a separate DCs A&E which was fantastic BEFORE we got our brand new shiny & fantastic Childrens Hospital confused

Now all DCs have go to the same A&E as adults & very often there are NO experienced Paediatric staff working there at all, something I've seen cause problems on a few occasions over the years & I've been left arguing with staff to get DD seen by a Paediatric Nurse - who saw even from looking at her at a distance that she was seriously ill & ordered chest Xrays - turned out she had double pneumonia & wouldn't be here now had I not been a bolshy cow & argued with the A&E nurse was going to send her home hmm

The Saturday before last DD had a nasty fall & I had to take her to A&E again - by the time we got there it was 9.45pm - & from there onwards started to fill up with drunks from falls & fights, including a large group of very drunk, loud & very dramatic TVs - not bothered by them being Transvestites, but the conversation & shockingly the racial abuse aimed at an Arab looking guy where bang out of order - generally typical Saturday night A&E in a City known for its party crowd & NOT in anyway suitable for Kids

But it took until being seen by the Nurse before we were passed through to a Childrens waiting area - that took an hour & a half, as the Nurse owned up to them alternating seeing one DC & one adult - so you can imagine by that time it was NOT a suitable environment for kids & was getting worse by the minute

Nurses words at that point "we'll put you in the Childrens waiting room now, as its hell out there & the drunken transexuals are making it worse, so not a suitable environment for Kids" -

I was very grateful to be moved into a safer area, but I pointed out there were 3 other DCs in the main waiting area, 2 much younger than DD - yet it was another hour before the first one came through to the DCs waiting area shock

Surely it can't be too difficult to organise sending DCs straight to the Kids area when they sign in??, nor is it too much to ask that they are given priority over none emergency adults ???

thats let alone the worry no properly trained Paediatric staff on duty.

DD turned out to have a fractured foot & ligament damage, but took over 5 hours to get through the system - yet she would have gladly given up her slot for the poor mite of about 3 who was in obvious severe pain & wailed & shivered in another room - I'm sure most adults would have done too sad

DD was left without a cast, but given crutches & a fracture clinic appointment - that they A&E admin got wrong - so we missed our correct appointment - meaning that she went 5 days without seeing ANYONE who could properly read her Xray - A&E staff were honest about the fact they couldn't & that they didn't know what to do for her - this meant despite being incredibly brave [very proud emoticon] she whimpered, screamed & cried in her sleep in pain, through pain killers every night sad

The fractured clinic put her in a cast straight away, she is coping MUCH better now & we've all had some sleep smile

Okay I understand in this climate of cut backs that its not the staffs fault there are no paediatric staff on duty & don't doubt A&E is one hell of a place to work - especially weekend nights

but AIBU to think that this is just unacceptable

- there were 6 DCs in pain there that night - our 5 hour wait wasn't the longestshock

& if IANBU - any suggestions on what to do about getting changes made - its actually scary to think thats what we have for our DCs

thanks smile

RealityVonCrapp Mon 12-Sep-11 12:58:28

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MmeLindor. Mon 12-Sep-11 13:00:10

I didn't know that some hospitals in UK have a Paediatric A&E. Is it common?

GypsyMoth Mon 12-Sep-11 13:00:25

Separate childrens facility?? Why? In this money saving climate

Birdsgottafly Mon 12-Sep-11 13:00:56

Did you complain over your DD treatment?

Complain to both PALS and contact your Local MP.

Are you up to starting a petition or campain via a local paper?

I would have thought that by there not being Paediatric staff on duty, the trust would be 'failing in it's duty of care'. Also safeguarding training is different for adult and child nursing, so i don't see that it would work as well as it should.

GypsyMoth Mon 12-Sep-11 13:01:23

Ours is a separate waiting area with a few kids cubicles with murals on the wall and colourful curtains,that's it

blackeyedsusan Mon 12-Sep-11 13:01:24

i think david cameron talked about this at some point because he often had to take his child to a and e in the middle of the night. (i remember as it was after visit to a and e for us... ) hope it wasn't all talk... sorrry, have no sensible suggestions.

rockinhippy Mon 12-Sep-11 13:02:32

reality thanks

but do you have trained any paediatric staff on duty ??

& a separate waiting area for late nights when there are likely to be drunks??

& do kids get seen first (bar life threatening situations)

I'm trying gage what is normal - thanks smile

Dirtydishesmakemesad Mon 12-Sep-11 13:04:06

Yanbu there should be a different facility. The a and e here has a different section for children, the doctors seem to go between the adult and childrens though and when we were there we had to wait on a cubicle after seing the inital doctor for another doctor who could actually help but having walked through the adult a and e to get there i am very glad i didnt have to sit with my child there, it was FULL of drunks there as sick on the floor and people shouting and swearing. The hospital should always seperate children from these people in my opinion. There was actually another section which had drunk teenagers in although i dont know if this was it purpose or if it was jyst being used for that that paritcular day.
No children especially ill or in pain should be exposed to what i saw that night ! ( yes i live a sheltered life i admit)

Birdsgottafly Mon 12-Sep-11 13:04:09

Surely as well it is costing more to transport the children who need admitting into hospital.

It will probably take a death for it to change.

Hassled Mon 12-Sep-11 13:04:53

Our A&E is part of a big city/teaching hospital, and having been there with DS3 yesterday (bitten by a bloody dog) I know they send the children off to a separate children's waiting area straightaway, pre triage. They are triaged there and seen by the Dr there. And despite being a Sunday afternoon with sporting injuries galore, we were in and out in a couple of hours.

Sorry your experience was so shit - but there will be some sort of patient's committee/panel attached to the hospital. Worth sharing your thoughts with them. It won't change if people don't make them aware.

BagofHolly Mon 12-Sep-11 13:05:52

We don't have a separate a&e but there's a separate waiting room you're directed to as you book in. It sounds like a problem at triage, rather than needing different facilities and surely is the kind of thing that the medical director for emergency services should be able to sort out fairly quickly.

Sidge Mon 12-Sep-11 13:08:11

You don't always put a cast on a fracture initially, sometimes you need to apply it a few days later when the swelling has gone down. Sometimes you need a backslab with bandaging, sometimes just bandaging.

Anyway, that aside, paediatric A&E provision tends to depend on annual numbers attending; if numbers do not justify a whole separate department then they will be integrated into a regular ED and usually have paediatric nurses rostered on to each shift.

ALL patients should be triaged and waiting time will depend on who is before you and what injuries or illness they have. What you consider non-emergency may not be accurate.

Hope your DD is better soon.

fumanchu Mon 12-Sep-11 13:08:44

Yanbu at all! Our local hospital has separate children's waiting area for A & E too.

TheProvincialLady Mon 12-Sep-11 13:09:20

We have a separate paed A&E and whilst it is better than sitting with the full weekend drunk crowd, it is no protection from bad behaviour. I have sat with some scary parents of high teenagers and a revolting pair of ratted women in charge of an asthmatic tiny babysad It is also no protection against a long wait, or admin errors.

On the whole I do think they are a good idea, but lack of resources mean it is probably only going to be very large towns and cities that even stand a chance.

fanjobanjowanjo Mon 12-Sep-11 13:09:25

There isn't a separate waiting area where I am, there's a playroom.

I would have thought kids should be a priority over non emergency adults, I think it is reasonable to expect there to be at least one paediatric doctor on shift. I also think it's reasonable to have a separate kids waiting room too, I wouldn't want them seeing some of the things that come into a&e, it can be quite upsetting.

There's no money for it though.

MmeLindor. Mon 12-Sep-11 13:09:29

I agree that they should always have paediatric medical staff available, and a separate childrens' waiting room.

How far away is the regular A&E from the Childrens' Hospital?

MissTinaTeaspoon Mon 12-Sep-11 13:11:37

Are you me op?! I have a remarkably similar story...dd hurt her foot at soft play and was fine for a few hours but then refused to walk on it, so off we went to a&e (not the same one as you, no children's hospital here).

By the time we arrived it was about 6, so getting late but luckily no obviously drunk or rowdy people waiting. I know for a fact that there is a lovely children's waiting area in our local A&E, but we were just left in the main area. I didn't really make a fuss because as I said it was fairly quiet and dd was happy chatting to another little girl, swapping toys and playing together. Anyway, we were there for about 2 hours, dd was xrayed and put in a cast even though they couldn't see a fracture 'just to be safe'. We were given an appointment to come back in a week.

When we arrived I reported to the desk in A&E and once again we were put in the main waiting area. Half an hour later we still hadn't been seen, so I went to find out what was going on, only to be told that the clinic hadn't started because there weren't any patients!?! hmm Seeing that I was a little annoyed by this they promised to get things moving.

Half an hour later dd is crying from boredom so I asked a nurse if we could St least wait in the children's area, only to be told that 'it's for patients only'! angryhmm

When we were eventually seen I asked the consultant what was the situation with the children's waiting room and she said that the policy regarding it's use annoyed her too and she was trying to get something done about it. I ended up putting an official complaint in and I got an apology. The explanation given was that during busy periods the children's area becomes an overflow area for adult patients too angry

I would complain if I was you, it's the only way that things might change.

Unfortunately children often get forgotten when services are bring planned and designed angry. That's my opinion as a parent and paediatric nurse.

ouryve Mon 12-Sep-11 13:18:33

Sunderland Royal Hospital has a separate kids' A&E and that's where we usually take the kids, even though there is another A&E half the distance from us. Our GP recommended it when DS2 had a torticollis, last year - he is autistic and non verbal and the staff who saw him knew exactly how to deal with him. There was a secure waiting area for him with lots to entertain him - we usually find 10 minutes in an adult waiting area pretty torturous, trying to keep him from running away.

I am struggling to work out how having a separate system for children alongside the adult services is wasteful of resources. DS1 sees a child psychiatrist, rather than an adult psychiatrist for his ADHD and mental health issues and other specialities also have a paediatric sub-speciality, since there are huge changes in physiology and disease aetiology between childhood and adulthood. I had an outpatients' hospital appointment, last week children were dealt with by different specialists and had a different seating area. I have a physio referral after my appointment, last week, but it won't be for the same physio who saw DS2 when he had the same diagnosis as mine. So why shouldn't hospitals proved separate A&E facilities for children, too.

choccyp1g Mon 12-Sep-11 13:21:01

Our local hospital has a separate area within A&E for children. They have some toys and cartoon-TV which helps a bit.You still have to wait your turn after triage, but at least you're not surrounded by drunks and not so many nasty-looking injuries.

piprabbit Mon 12-Sep-11 13:22:59

Our A&E has a separate children's waiting room, with toys, books and juice available (I think there is also a play leader during the day time).

So you queue up, check-in and get shown straight to the children's waiting area. The wait is still pretty long - I'm not sure that children are automatically prioritised or anything. But at least children and siblings are not bothering the adults and vice versa.

So that at least should be very achievable for the OPs hospital.

ddubsgirl Mon 12-Sep-11 13:24:30

at rsch here we now have the childrens hospital on the same site,kids under 1 have to go straight to the casu kids over 1 have to sit in the same a&e as adults,been there so many times now im gonna start paying rent!

Voidka Mon 12-Sep-11 13:25:34

We have a separate kids A&E here too. Except resuss - when DS had a terrible asthma attack a couple of years ago they put him in the adult one.

VivaLeBeaver Mon 12-Sep-11 13:32:30

Wow, ne er heard of a separate paed a&e. Lucky that some cities have them but guess you can't expect them. Would cost a fortune to I plement everywhere.

My dd never got a fracture clinic appt after numerous admin cock ups after. I've given up trying to get one now.

Five hours is a long time to wait for a kid when they're in pain but sadly I think that's par for the course inoverstretched a&e depts.

Our local A&E is a 10 minute drive away but won't see children. We have to go to A&E at the Children's Hospital which is a good 45 minute drive in the rush hour and doesn't have parking hmm

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