childcare costs

[splashymcsplash]

This is something that has been brought up time and time again.. childcare costs are very expensive, especially in London/SE.

AIBU to ask you to sign this e-petition so maybe, just maybe, something could be done about it?

[joruth]

you may feel that childcare costs are extortionate...but as a childminder i work many more hours than all of the parents who use me, for much, much less pay. I don't know how to square that circle??

[Flisspaps]

I agree with joruth.

I charge £3.00 per hour.

Some days I earn the princely sum £6.00 ph as I have two children with me, that's £0.07ph above the NMW, and from October that will be £0.08ph LESS than NMW. How is that expensive?

[moogster1a]

When I look after just 1 child a day I work 11 hours a day for £30. Do you think this should be less? or should I pay even more in taxes to subsidise other people's children?

[MilaMae]

I too am a childminder,at £4 an hour earn under the minimum wage.I'm highly qualified(ex primary teacher),Outstanding and have a mortgage to pay.

Sorry but do you expect those of us working in childcare to get paid less?

If that is the case I (and many like me)would simply return to teaching or change career.The hours and paperwork those of us in the chidcare sector have to do is just ridiculous and to be frank I think many of us are under paid as it is.

I think moaning about the cost of one of the most important jobs there is ie caring for extremely young and vulnerable stinks to be frank.Quality costs and children deserve the best quality.

[MamaChocoholic]

joruth, Fliss, I don't suspect anyone thinks childcare is especially well paid. my dp also earns £6ph and we have 3 under 4 in childcare (which obviously costs more than £6ph). saying childcare feels expensive does not mean you should be paid less, but that the cost should be subsidised to allow parents who want to work to afford to do so.

splash, where is the petition and what does it say?

[ChippingIn]

splashy - I understand that you find it incredibly frustrating paying out a large part of your (joint) income on childcare but who exactly do you think should pay for it?

• Do you think childminders/nannies/nursery staff should be paid even less than they are now? (bearing in mind most of them barely get a living wage).
  

• Do you think the Govt. should subsidise it and if so, why? Why should everyone else pay for your childcare?
  

You (people in general - not just 'you') have children knowing you have to pay for childcare if you choose to work - I really don't see why it's such as issue. Downsize, holiday less & stay home or suck up the childcare cost for 4 years and enjoy working outside the home/paying into your pension or whatever. It is a choice everyone has to make for themselves - but I don't see how or why childcare should be any cheaper.

[RitaMorgan]

If you're asking for more government subsidy of childcare then I agree with you - unfortunately no one wants to pay more tax though!

[saadia]

YABU - childcare should be well-paid.

[moogster1a]

Subsidised by who? Do you not think as taxpayers we're being squeezed dry as it is? i'm of the opinion that people should realise that the first few years of their child's life they will possibly be skint.

[Jelly15]

I am also a childminder who charges £3.00 per hour. I can only have 3 under 5 year old at a time and out of this £90 a day I have to pay for food, toys, arts and crafts resourses, insurances, stationery (there is a lot of paper work), NCMA membership, petrol, play groups and more. This is all before tax and NI. I love my job (50 hours a week plus paperwork) and am not complaining about it but I am fed up with people moaning about the cost of childcare.

[MilaMae]

Yes I too would begrudge paying more in taxes to pay for other people's childcare.

Parents choose to have children so perhaps a little planning ahead and thought as to the funding of childcare would be prudent. Many people don't have children,take career breaks or are creative with working hours, why should they pay for other people's childcare?

[ChippingIn]

MamaChocoholic - why should anyone else pay more tax to subsidise your childcare costs?

The only thing I think should be changed is the tax/NI if you pay a nanny. Either the nanny shouldn't pay it or the parents shouldn't pay it. Paying a gross wage out of a net income is wrong imo.

[MamaChocoholic]

Rita, I would pay more tax for subsidised childcare, decent care of the elderly, other services. if it allows parents to get into the working habit whilst their children are young, then they will probably continue to work once the children are in school, whereas they would find it harder to do so if they take several years out whilst the children are small. in the end they will contribute more tax this way.

[Flisspaps]

As a taxpayer I wouldn't want to pay to subsidise other people's childcare costs though. I wouldn't have expected nor wanted the state to subsidise my DD's childcare costs had I decided to return to my old job.

[moogster1a]

So we should pay for people to "get into the working habit". I "got into the working habit" at 18 and never got out of it. No one subsidised me. and if people want more money, they will return to work when the children are at school .Unless, of course, they've got out of the habit.

[cantspel]

The government has no money all the money is tax payers money and no one wants to pay more tax and quite frankly why should we want to so that the governmnet can use that more to subsidies people life style choices.

If you choose to have 3 children who will all be needing childcare then you should have thought about how you were going to fund it.

I wanted 3 children but had 2 as that is the max number i could aford. maybe i should have had the third and then come on here to moan how skint i was because of my childcare costs.

[MamaChocoholic]

I subsidise lots of things I disagree with (wars) or don't use (rural bus services) with my taxes Chipping. I think investing in keeping people working (if they choose) during their children's young years will pay off in the long run as they will pay more tax over their lifetime.

[MamaChocoholic]

cantspel I wanted two children but had three as the second turned out to be twins! (we could afford childcare for two, for three it looks like dp will have to cut back hours or give up work).

[grubbalo]

The argument is surely that by encouraging mums of children to work, that they will pay more taxes, claim less benefits, thereby ensuring that the cost is more than met by those taxes etc.

The working tax credit is actually a very good way to do that and it is a shame that it has been cut - I know several people for who that is the only reason they are actually able to afford to go out to work.

Tricky one though. I really see why people begrudge having taxes spent on childcare for people. I have 2 children (about to have 3) and yes the childcare costs are ridiculous - I only work 3 days a week and we were still talking over £1,000 a month sometimes (and that was with the older one being partially funded). We earn too much to qualify for WTC but there is an element of us having to see the bigger picture and that when, once and for all, the children have got through nursery etc, we will then reap the rewards of me working. I am in a good job though and I can fully understand why for a lot of people, once they have more than 1 child, it just isn't practical or affordable for them to work. In a way I think the government (and I suppose the rest of us) are going to have to see it in the same way I do, i.e. you invest a bit when people have smaller children so that longterm they keep working, keep paying taxes etc.

[Jelly15]

grubbalo - You say childcare costs are ridiculous, what do you think you should be paying then? And how do you think childcare business can afford to run on less income? I know I don't want to pay more tax even though I am a childcare provider.

[Ro62]

I'm a parent with one child at childminder and another on the way, and I cringe at the thought of how little our amazing childminder must earn for one of the hardest jobs -and longest days- around. Before I had our DC, when I heard friends complaining about how much their childcare cost, I used to be sad on behalf of their children. My view then was 'Why wouldn't you want to pay a reasonable sum for quality care - are you saying looking after your child isn't as important as whatever you do to earn money for an hour?'

I kept my mouth shut (for once...) luckily - I can see now how my lovely friends, who of course care for their kids, just really struggle to pay this, mortgage, bills, living costs etc. A few have given up work to retrain as childminders as it's the only way to care for their own kids and earn something - their old jobs weren't even covering travel and childcare. Some were happy to do this, but at least one really mourned her old job (teaching) which she absolutely loved.

So joruth is totally right: squaring the circle is what's needed and unfortunately, that can't be done by individual parents or by childminders - it's a state role. We all know how important early years are, and nobody needs this support forever. As a society, we need to support parents, children, and those who care for them, whether we plan to have kids ourselves or not - we'll all be relying on these toddlers when we're a few decades down the line and using the NHS, home helps etc. What goes around comes around.

Does Mumsnet campaign on this one? And if not, how do we get one started?

[Mum2Luke]

I agree totally with MilaMae and Jelly15, I am also a childminder in the North-West. There are far too many childminders in my area so I'm in competition for places and therefore my rates have to be competitive and I end up earning very little (well below min wage) yet having to pay for essentials such as resources, insurance, OFSTED fees the list goes on.

Some people pay a cleaner more than a childminder/nursery, are children not more precious that they can pay £6-8ph for a cleaner yet £3-5 ph for minding their child?

[DuelingFanjo]

I am discovering that it's cheaper for me to pay full time creche hours then take a day's holiday a week than it would be to drop a day each week! So it's more cost effective for me to work than it is for me to reduce my hours.

[mousymouse]

when you calculate the ratio in a nursery (under two 3:1) against the cost of staff, rent, food then the costs is actually not so high.
but I agree that it is a lot of money and too much for some families.