To have left DS2 out of the Mcdonalds trip?

[TrainingJedi]

DS2(10) has been a pain at bedtimes for the past year or so. As soon as it's lights out he creeps out of bed and plays with his xbox. When I took his xbox out of his room, he started doing it with his toys. If the toys are took out, he sneaks downstairs whilst I'm asleep and watches movies. Sometimes I've worked out he must have been up until 3/4am some nights. It is driving me crazy.

So anyway last night he went to bed and it was lights out at 10pm (no school until tomorow). I heard him get back up again at 10.45 after I'd gone to bed myself. I went in and told him off, took his toys out etc and this morning I go to wake him up at 8am. I had to go out and leave him with his older brother so I get back home at 9.45 and he's still in bed. His older brother tells me he heard DS messing around at 1am this morning when he went to toilet. I go to wake him up again. 11.20 he's still in bed so I go in and tell him he either gets up immediately or he will be left at home whilst I take DS1 to Mcdonalds for an end of holidays treat. DS2 then shouts at the top of his voice for me to get out and leave him alone. I then tell him he will be in bed at 9pm tonight and I will be setting off to Mcdonalds in 5 minutes. If he wants to come, he better be ready. Again he shouts at me so in sheer frustration I tell him tonight's bedtime has dropped to 8pm and DS1 and I are leaving.

I then left and did not bring him a Mcdonalds back like I think he was expecting.

AIBU?? never left him out like that before but I'm sick to death of him not listening and just doing what the hell he wants.

[storminabuttercup]

As long as you didn't leave him alone it's fine IMO he was clearly too tired to go anyway ;-)

[bigbluebus]

Don't think you are being unreasonable to not reward DS2 with a trip to McDonalds but am more concerned that you appear to have left a 10 year old home alone who in your opinion "just does what the hell he wants".

[aftereight]

Does he get much physical exercise every day to tire him out? Can you get a burglar alarm which you can set for downstairs zones at night to keep him upstairs?
YANBU to punish him for his behaviour and attitude, but YABU to leave him in the house alone at the age of 10 when he is clearly irresponsible.

[Sofabitch]

You really need to crack this behaviours before he gets any older. If needs be take all toys out of his room.

Yanbu for leaving him behind. But you Abu for parenting him and making him get out of bed. My ds would have got a bucket of cold water on his bed for ignoring my request that many times.

[woowoo2]

I am with bigbluebus on this one - did you really leave him alone? He is only 10 and already does whatever he wants to

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

I've no idea of the rights or wrongs of the MacDonalds incident but I'd also be very worried about a 10yo that doesn't sleep. Is he physically active enough during the day or doing too much sedentary gaming? Is his diet good... plenty of fruit and veg... because a poor diet can be linked to aggressive behaviour, inability to relax and other difficulties? Does he get out of bed at a reasonable time in the morning? Is he alert during the day or lethargic?.. The ongoing problem would worry me far more than a one-off outburst.

[TrainingJedi]

To be fair I believe he can be trusted in the house on his own for short periods. I have been leaving him alone (when he gets in from school for an hour) for quite a while now and once I'm out, he doesn't put a foot wrong. We have a neighbour who is always in should he need someone and his grandma only lives around the corner. We have had lots of safety talks etc and the Mcdonalds is only 5 mins from the house. We used the drivethrough so I didn't need to leave him for too long but he is nearly 11, he's going to be in secondary school soon.

I like the idea of the burglary alarm. great thing about ours is that it can be set specifically for the living room and kitchen leaving the bathroom free - therefore he can't use the toilet excuse.

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

Sorry, just seen that he was still in bed at 11.20. Sounds like you need to introduce a timetable for home, especially with school starting up again. What time to get up, what time to go to bed, what chores to be done..... might be a fight at first but he sounds like he desperately needs some structure.

[TrainingJedi]

He does need structure. His sleep pattern is weird because sometimes he does go to sleep in his room but then wakes up again at 4am and comes downstairs, watches a movie, falls asleep on the sofa and then wakes up groggy and aggressive at 7am. He doesn't do any activity. He used to go to cubs but gave that up, refuses to do any kind of sport. He used to do horseriding but I'm just not in the position to do that now financially.

[Nagoo]

Yep, I'd put the alarm on.

But what if he genuinely can't sleep? It's a bit unfair to punish him if he physically can;t get to sleep. Can you agree on something he is allowed to do if he wakes? Read? Why is he not allowed to play quietly with his toys?

X Box and tv is a bad thing to encourage and rewards him for being awake, but if he's insomniac then it's not fair to punish him.

[RCToday]

I think its fine to leave a 10 year old alone

I would have dragged him out of bed though and given him millions of chores to do for shouting at me

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

He can't sleep because he's only been awake a few hours and (I'm guessing by the X-Box reference) he is not active enough. To get him out of this nocturnal pattern, the OP has to force-start his day a lot earlier and give him things to do like chores and errands that will make him physically tired. It'll probably improve once he's back at school and having to get up in the morning, but the danger is that if he goes back to old habits at weekends he'll spend Monday and Tuesday being the one unable to concentrate in class and probably bad-tempered into the bargain.

[TrainingJedi]

Nagoo, I am fine with him reading, he's currently reading a huge "saga" of 12 books and is currently on the last one (which is good considering I couldn't get him to read a comic only a year ago). I buy him a new book whenever he asks for one. Books is one thing I have absolutely no limit on, if they want one, they get one.

But if I let him play with his toys, he would honestly be playing them all night.

[TimothyClaypoleLover]

I think your DS2 had a lucky escape - Macdonalds is foul.

[MmeLindor.]

YANBU to leave him behind.

But you do have to crack the "insomnia" - whether it is a habit or true insomnia.

Does he walk to school? Or get any kind of exercise aside from school sport?

I think that age is a difficult one, as they are not as active as they were when they were 7 or 8yo.

If need be, you will have to drag him out for a walk.

[Sofabitch]

He won't sleep well if he's not doing any physical activities. He needs a set bedtime and rising time. You need to stick at It for a good few weeks /months before you will see a difference. He should never have been allowed to get up and put a film on in the middle of the night. That is just asking for trouble. He probably genuinely can't sleep at a reasonable bedtime now if he is sleeping in so late in the morning.

Chuck him out side for a few hours each day. The woods, beach, park, climbing trees, playing football, rollerblading etc doesn't cost any money. And there many Low cost activities. Like swimming etc. Does your local leisure centre run Saturday morning activities. ?

[TrainingJedi]

He does walk or cycle to school MmeLindor but apart from that - he does zilch.

Considering he seems to be a big fan of play fighting etc I suggested kickboxing/karate lessons - I really thought he'd go for the kickboxing because of the "cool" trousers and "tough" stigma but nah - too much effort

[Sofabitch]

I'd be selling the xbox as well.

[TrainingJedi]

Well he's currently moping around in his dressing robe telling me he isn't going to bed at 8pm and he's not eating any of the "crap" that we have in the cupboards for his lunch.

I definitely think I did the right thing now.

[Sofabitch]

What is his usual bedtime op?

[TrainingJedi]

his usual bedtime is 9pm.

[ChocolateTeacup]

Here is what I would do if I were you

Sit him down and explain this is whats going to be happening:

You may use the xbox for 1hr per day in total
Bedtime is at X pm
You will not leave your bedroom until X am except if you need the toilet

When you follow this for 1 week you will get X as a reward

Your attitude must stop if it does not X will happen

• And most importantly stick with it, maybe introduce jobs for pocket money now if he doesn't already do it, I would also put the parental controls on the xbox and remove the thing when he has been on it enough, at night you can simply remove the fuse that powers the living room etc and just leave the ones on for lights and kitchen and your bedroom

[seeker]

Out on his bike now. Not allowed back for 2 hours. X box confiscated til further notice. I suggest he only gets it back if he commits to some sort of exercise- like to kick boxing you suggested. And no pocket money(if he gets it) for using language like that around you. Don't put up with this- he needs exercise and structure. He needs to go to bed so tired he sleeps.

[Nagoo]

They turn into teenagers at 10 now

[InnocentRedhead]

Also another one, and this did me good when i wasn't sleeping at night... Even when he is not in school, do not let him lie in all hours. Get him up at say 9am at the latest on a weekend. It is not made clear on here what time he gets up when not at school.

He is 10 - still a child, so treat him like one, take away things like his toys out of his room, and all of the other things that MNers have suggested. Also make sure he gets no naps during the day to catch up on his sleep