to wonder why women who dont like their own lives, seriously consider blaming feminism?

[TheRealTillyMinto]

the other targets for the finger of blame are:

1. global downturn
   
2. remaining inequality
   
3. over population
   
4. capitalism
   
5. themselves
   
6. their parents
   
7. their DP
   

plus any number of things you care to add to the list....

Also it is illogical to ignore what feminism has given you (the vote, access to DCs after divorce, the right to say no to sex with your DH).

feminism is easy target if put on rose tinted spectacles and look back to an idealised past that never existed. you don?t have the deal with politics, economics or take responsibility for your own life. so AIBU to say blaming feminism for what is wrong in your own life, is just lazy thinking?

[worraliberty]

You left Aunt Bessie off the list

[Selky]

YNBU.

And the anti feminist line always seems to be some green fields and cupcakes full employment utopia, where not only does a woman's husband never leave her, he never gets ill, never gets made redudant, never dies young.

If your husband died young and you had no right to inherit the marital property and no means to earn a living to support you and your children, what blood good is that to a normal human being. Without the progress made by feminism you are stuffed, or reliant on the good nature and generousity of family.

And that is no place for a grown woman with responsibilities to be.

[Hullygully]

because they're thick

[Selky]

And there's that too.

[Hullygully]

That's all of it really

[TheVermiciousKnid]

'because they're thick'



I tend to blame everything on Thatcher. (Maybe that's not entirely fair, but tough.)

[BelleDameSansMerci]

Hully

[Crosshair]

I blame stuff on the dog.

[stripeywoollenhat]

what hully said. also thatcher, most likely.

[BecauseImWorthIt]

[AyeRobot]

I thought that calling people thick wrt feminism was a big no-no?

I think they are uninformed and possibly lacking in intellectual curiosity, Luckily, there are plenty of people on MN to pass on information. You can lead a horse to water, though, but you can't make them, err, think.

[BelleDameSansMerci]

Because they're thick?

[HerHissyness]

I've lived in places where women live as they did here in the 40s and 50s.

Women having no real rights at all really, not even in their own home, no say, no opinion, no respect.

I may have been ambivalent about feminism prior to that.

I'm not now.

people (men and women) risked and gave their lives so that we today can stand up and reject unequal treatment. Despite all the legislation and human rights won for women all over the world as a result of these brave people, there is still so far to go.

Those that seek to poo-poo equality, feminism etc and suggest that it is in any way to blame for any ill-feeling, dissatisfaction etc either (a) need to go live somewhere where women REALLY have no fucking choice but to STFU and put up with whatever IS thrown their way, or (b) realise that they are being brainwashed by misogynists/inferior men who don't like any form of challenge/competition.

We are just as human as men, we are just as capable as men, and we have as much right to be heard, listened to, respected, and rewarded as men.

This is like the whole flat earth, round earth argument. when the evidence is staring us all in the face, it's simply ludicrous to say any different?

We have a right and full reason to be fully paid up participating members of the human race. We have a duty to ourselves and our children to make the most of every oppportunity we have to grow, learn, thrive and live.

[SecretSquirrell]

I am indebted to feminsism, as are all women. It is what gives us the freedoms we take for granted.
I am always saddened and a bit sickened by women who say they aren't feminists.
Selky, spot on post.

[TheVermiciousKnid]

[Tchootnika]

I tend to blame everything on Thatcher.

That's entirely fair, TVK. And entirely reasonable.
And she and her successors certainly have a lot to answer for in relation to some not very bright people blaming feminism for the world's wrongs.

[Georgimama]

One of the few sensible things I have heard Cherie Blair reported to have said is that the rights women enjoy - property rights, the vote, general self determination - were hard won and are not set in stone. If we value them cheaply (as some women seem to do) we could lose them.

[HerHissyness]

Oh, meant to say... in lands where women are not really encouraged/allowed to work... why is it that these places STILL have high rates of MALE unemployment? even when there are jobs that need doing

Why DO you see all manner of meat and 2 veg sitting around scratching themselves when these women are not able to be accused of stealing a job from a man?

Life can be shit, but blaming equal rights as an excuse is sheer lunacy.

[HerHissyness]

I think Thatcher did the (female) world a bloody good favour actually. It showed women of my age that women COULD lead, could govern, and could make bloody tough decision when needed.

I won't say I agree with all her decisions, or the style in which she made them, BUT, she was a pioneer, her stance was perhaps a little TOO male, but she had to crack through a bloody hard and thick glass ceiling. She went perhaps overboard in her delivery, but she showed the world that it could be done.

She was OUR version of America's Obama. We may not agree with their politics, but they both were the holders of huge Firsts in our respective cultures.

[SecretSquirrell]

Agreed herhissyness.
And, let's face it, she had more balls than Clegg, Cameron , Brown and Blair out together!

[HerHissyness]

With the financial state of affairs we have currenlty, with so much debt, so much expense in our day to day lives, it's actually MORE important, not less, that we have equal rights, that we do get help to live and have a right and entitlement to welfare through recognition of us as human beings in our own rights.

Selky gives a hugely important example of why it's vital we are equal. I add to this the fact that day in, and day out we have women here on MN in the relationships board and AIBU that are trapped in hateful situations with vile, cruel partners by the very nature that they can't afford to get out.

If added to these poor creatures was the fact that - as in some places in the world - they have no social nor civil right to live alone, either our suicide rate or murder rate would increase.

i heard that in Egypt for example, the majority of women prisoners are locked up actually for murdering their husbands. I know of one woman that has repeatedly tried to poison her H. These women have very little options open to them.

[Georgimama]

Apart from being right wing, which seems to be some kind of thought crime in the eyes of many women, Thatcher's big "error" was that she was too advanced a feminist. She ignored her gender because she was completely certain that she, and other women, were and could be the equal of any man whenever they chose to be. She took for granted the extraordinary support her father gave her (extraordinary for the time, certainly).

[Georgimama]

Posted too soon. Meant to go on to say this made her lack sympathy with many women because she simply couldn't see the problems they faced in exerting the same equality with men she took for granted. She assumed (much in the way a much loved poster on this site does) that all women could have the same experience as her if they tried.

[donthateme]

I applaud you for starting this thread.

And you are absolutely right. And as we're on a roll now, calling a spade a spade and thick people thick: the only women I've known who have 'blamed' stuff on feminism are in addition to being rather stupid, also quite lazy and passive. If you think the world owes you a living (or rather some poor sod of a husband owes you a living while you fanny around making cupcakes) then yes, you probably do feel a bit threatened by the women around you who expect more from life and give more to life.

I agree that if such women really opened their eyes and looked at what life is like for women who really have no choice, they might be a little more enlightened.