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to think this girl might be bullying dd?

(17 Posts)
minxofmancunia Sat 03-Sep-11 18:48:38

Bit of an awkward situation, the mum is a v v good friend of mine, her dd and mine who're the same age (just 5) used to get on well together but recently their relationship seems to have deteriorated and they argue all the time. At first I thought it was just a bit of age expected nonsense and me and the girls Mum juat asked them not to tell tales and try and get on.

However I decided to keep a bit more of a close eye on things because they had so many spats (much more than dd with her other friends), I noticed this girl isn't just bossy she's controlling, she forces dd to play exactly as she wants and screams in her face if she doesn't comply, she rages at dd if she's got something she wants really screaming up close in her face.

Today, at a party she called dd an idiot, put her fingers in her ears everytime dd tried to talk to her, screamed in her face again and did and lot of whispering and sniggering to other girls about dd deliberately to upset her.

Dd told me afterwards that this girl is is horrible to her most of the time but nice a bit of the time. She said she still wanted to be friends with her. I'm a it sick of this grils behaviour tbh, I think it's affecting dd self-esteem. I know 4/5 year old girls can be stroppy, have multiple fall outs, and e contrary and contentious but I wonder if this particular childs behaviour is more than this. Or am I being over sensitive?

There are family dynamics issues with this child which I don't want to go into in detail but she's probably witnessed a lot of screaming, shouting, intimidation and verbal abuse.

It's pretty awkward because me and the mum are such good mates and I want to remain friends with her,

Nanny0gg Sat 03-Sep-11 18:52:42

Are they at school together?
If not, limit their time together and see mum without your children.
If they are, have a quiet word with the teacher to keep a check on things.

CouldIBEAnyMoreChaotic Sat 03-Sep-11 18:58:17

I'll echo NannyO.

Please please limit the time the two spend together, and encourage other friendships.

I have been through this. 3 years of hell from the other child acting in a manipulative, bullying fashion, and being as sweet as pie when adults are observing.

minxofmancunia Sat 03-Sep-11 19:02:39

No different schools fortunately. She can be a lovely sweet little thing but there's an unpleasant side to her.

It's almost impossible for me to see my friend without the child there. She's a single parent absent father and the child refuses to be left with anyone e/g. a grandparent. We have experience of the fuss she creates, dh tried looking after her once when me and the mum went out and she just created the whole time.

Rowena8482 Sat 03-Sep-11 20:27:10

You could just try being bluntly matter of fact
"I'm sorry (other girl) but DD doesn't want to go up to her room to play with you, you screamed in her face last time and she doesn't like that"
"I'm sorry (other girl) but you need to play here where mummy and I can see you - DD doesn't want you to scream in her face again"
Don't have a "tone" or side to your voice, just completely matter of fact as if you were saying anything else to them, but hold your ground. Your DD needs you to stand up for her and believe her, and since you've observed this other child doing the screaming etc, you can calmly say so if her mother says anything. Just keep calm and reiterate DD doesn't like being screamed at close up and we can't allow (other girl) to do that to her.

MmmmmCake Sat 03-Sep-11 20:29:26

poor little kid

if she has witnessed a lot of screaming, shouting, intimidation and verbal abuse. she is probably confused and frightened.

thefirstmrsrochester Sat 03-Sep-11 20:32:30

Excellent advice Rowena.
My DS is experiencing similar treatment from his so called best friend. I'm going to have to speak to his mum (also good friend of mine).
If the boot was on the other foot, I'd want to be made aware.

Nanny0gg Sat 03-Sep-11 20:46:39

You can always see your friend and leave your child with your DH. Not ideal, but better for your DD.

FigsAndWine Sat 03-Sep-11 21:20:25

Good advice from Rowena imo.

minxofmancunia Sat 03-Sep-11 21:54:10

Thanks for your advice, I think i'll try that Rowena i did tentatively once say to dd, "you don't have to give.....that until she asks you nicely" as this child was screaming in dds face to try to get a toy from her. And "we don't ask for things by screaming".

I hated the way she yelled at dd today in front of all the other children, she had a really nasty disparaging tone to her voice as well, I know she's only 5 but it just seemed so scathing.

Now both girls are at school I think I might meet the Mum in the day with just ds (2) she's a SAHM and I only work 3 days so it would probably be easier.

Rowena8482 Sat 03-Sep-11 22:30:35

I don't think I'd be able to be tentative (but I tend to be overloud anyway) - there is no reason why you can't just say to your DD "come here DD - when (other child) calms down you can play again" or even get yourself between them so you're physically protecting your DD and just say firmly "we don't behave like that in this house" or repeat what you said before. That way your DD is removed from the "in her face" proximity, and it's you that is stopping the other girl's behaviour/taking the toy away/stopping the tantrum rather than your DD being the focus for the other kid's ire.
Does the other mother do anything at all to moderate her girl's behaviour? How is her own behaviour? (I was just wondering - if her and her DP or other family members do shriek at each other/snatch generally have no manners etc, the little one might be picking it up at home and just not know any better) Or does mum have her head in the sand/ pfb blinkers on and just hope it will magically go away somehow?

minxofmancunia Sat 03-Sep-11 22:44:51

My friend the Mum is great, she often takes her off and has firm words with her and is quick to intervene, she does a bloody good job in adverse circumstances IMO. It's just the 2 of them though, she had to leave her ex H in secret and he's completely absent, awful situation. So their relationship is v intense. And the kid is spoilt materially, when the mum was with her ex although he was abusive and controlling she had carte blanche with a credit card so just went shopping all the time and her child has literally EVERYTHING.

Ismeyes Sat 03-Sep-11 22:45:24

I had this last year with my DD. I spoke to the teacher about it, who was fantastic and encouraged me to do what I could to teach my own child to deal with the situation. I hadn't looked at it like that before, but what she said really made sense - that my child could learn something from how she was being treated. We borrowed a book about friendships, which had a great section about 'bossy friends' and opened up good conversations between me and DD about how we should expect other people to treat us. We also talked about assertiveness (not in those terms, but more simplistic) and how it was ok to say no to other people, especially if they are making us feel sad, worried or frightened.

It also helped us to talk about how this doesn't mean we should be nasty in return, but that sometimes other children might be like this because they are sad, worried or frightened too. I know it all sounds very deep and meaningful, and perhaps above the head of a 5 year old, but I have been really impressed about how well it has worked.

The end result has been that the girls maintain a friendship, but a much more even one where DD is able to make her own needs known.

Booandpops Sat 03-Sep-11 22:53:35

ISMEYES. Do u know the name of friendship book. My dd also has issues with a boy in her class whose mum is a friend of mine ta

Ismeyes Sat 03-Sep-11 23:03:04

Its this one here

It is american in style, but it didn't seem to bother DD and I thought it was quite comprehensive.

Booandpops Sun 04-Sep-11 22:50:03

ISMEYES. Thanks!

MumblingRagDoll Sun 04-Sep-11 23:29:56

When my DD now 7 had a similar situation, I role played with her....gave her ideas on how to respond in similar situations...she loved it because it was amusing for her to pick on me and she liked t when w revered the roles and she could imitate how I had responded to the way I reacted to getting bossed.

With DD it was also a bossy friend...this friend ws pulling her about in an effort to make her do things or to get her away from her other pals.

I said things like "No! Let go of my arm now!" in a firm voice...and "If you do that again I will tell your Mummy."

I also showed her how to disengage without hurting the grabby kid....basically a sharp pull of her wn arm away from the child whilst saying "No!" which is good advice generally.

It will level. 5 is still young and some kids are just slow to learn social skills...this girl does sound bossy as well as antisocial though.

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