To blame all the trouble on absent parents?

[SindyW]

I blame the parents who couldn't be bothered to bring up their own children. Typically Boris Johnson whos mother or public school (she farmed him out to) couldn't teach him how to comb his hair or which way up to hold a broom. Also, David Cameron who seems to have no temper or impulse control. He also seems more intersted in whether a Lobour MP has his jacket on than the riots. If they had been properly mothered the country might not be in the mess it is today.

[AgentZigzag]

Hehe, I like your take on it

[limitedperiodonly]

It's very distressing.

Gideon went on holiday to Los Angeles, ostensibly with his wife and children, but I only saw pictures of him arriving alone at LAX in an ill-fitting jacket, jeans that were baggy around the groin area and a cheap nylon rucksack that appeared deflated.

Now he's come back alone. I am worried about his loved ones and think we should be told.

[meditrina]

At least this can't turn into an anti-Thatcher thread!

[SindyW]

It's all Thatchers fault. She said we don't need maufacturing. It was a sunset industry. We need new financial services. Ha Ha Ha. But she is ok in her nursing home while we are left picking up the pieces.

[limitedperiodonly]

Why do you think that?

[SindyW]

Because Thatcher used the police against the people in the 80s. The police went along with it in return for enhanced pay, conditions and pensions. This government have gone back on the deal. Now the police have no friends left. God help the country and the poor people. It all started with Thatcher.

[Tortington]

ver good

[Gillybean73]

SindyW you need to check back a little further with your political 'insights'. If you do, you will see that history has repeated itself - this country's problems started WAY before the Thatcher government or are you too young to remember the previous Labour administration? If you do remember it, you will have lived through the times when everyone's street was full of weeks and weeks worth of uncollected rubbish which was just one of the many 'highlights'?

The Thatcher administration had no end of a mess to sort out when they took over and lo and behold, Mr Blair and Mr Brown have screwed up the entire country and the economy yet again and the ConLib Coalition have the thankless task of sorting out the sorry mess and no doubt will be pilloried for it by people like you who don't know fact from fiction.

Whilst I am no fan of Cameron/Clegg they are definitely a damn sight better than their predecessors who had the audacity to leave a handover note for the new Government saying basically that there was nothing to hand over as the had spent all the money! Wake up and get over slagging off Thatch for everything that has ever gone wrong in the world.

[SindyW]

We have just had the battle of London and the mob won. Who will sort out this trouble. Our economy is in a real mess. Lower growth forcasts every week. It is only growth that will get us out of our economic problems. The Labour party (Tories in disguse) tried to sort out the social problems created by Thatcher but it will take many generations to address (after the economic problems have been dealt with). We have had concensus politicts for years. It is rubbish. We are in a real mess now. All created in the name of free market economics. It isn't worth working anymore, there is no law and order, we are only here to consume, the market will decide. It's all failed and now we have the mess.
There is only two sections of society that have any power - the rich and the very poor. There is more of the very poor. Most sensible governments pay them off or dominate them. Cameron is willing to do neither.

[Gillybean73]

No wonder this country is on it's knees if there are people out there who think like you SindyW!!!

So you think the answer is to 'pay off' the poor? That is a large part of the problem - generation after generation of dole spongers who think that the world owes them a living and that they should be kept forever more by handouts from the state whilst they sit around on their arses doing nothing! It would be interesting statistics by the way to see how many of these looters and rioters actually are the aforementioned dole spongers? I'm guessing not many will EVER have had any paid employment for any length of time and although it is difficult getting jobs in the current climate there are always jobs available - they might not be very glamourous but there is always work available if you are not a lazy waster and the devil makes work for idle hands and all that!

Economic crisis not helped of course by Mr Blair and Mr Brown's open door policy for immigration - in you come everybody!!! Sponge off us, claim benefits that you've never contributed towards, hey even have child benefit for your children still living in Poland, Hungary, Outer Mongolia or wherever - it doesn't matter whether or not these children actually exist, are in Britain or not, hey have some money for them anyway!! Oh and when you reach retirement age, hey, you can have a state pension too that you've never contributed towards because we're nice like that!!! Where the hell else on the planet could you turn up from another country and be handed all that on a plate???

We need to adopt the attitude of the New Zealanders - I believe you can only ever claim unemployment benefit/income support ONCE in your entire life and it's for a maximum of a year. There is no incentive to be a dole sponging waste of space over there and hence they don't have anything like the social/economic problems that we have here.

[SindyW]

We could have a society like that. The Polish have tried to live in a shanty town in Peterborough but the authorities have been arresting them. People without jobs and benefits would have to live like that. I think people would be happier. Most of the world has that system. This country doesn't so has to keep the poor people in benefits. I was asking my ex-nanny (ex South African) what happened to women over there who were left with children. She said they moved to the countyside and grew vegetables!!! That is a lot of English peoples dream. We have a system where anybody is allowed in (from the EU). This is to pay for the trade we are allowed to do with the other EU countries. There has been underemployment for decades. Unless things change drastically this will continue. Most familes need tax credits to survive. Or we could move to the countryside and grow veges. It would be different but probably better for the people although the country would be poor economically (lower overall food production due to inefficient use of farmland).

[garlicbutter]

Only 12 posts, and this thread is already bizarre. I'm liking your OP, though, Sindy. Hoping the Daily Mail will pick up your idea & take it for a run!

Much to my astonishment, yesterday's Mail carried a couple of reasonably feminist pieces, plus quite a few bits laying the blame for last weekend's shenanigans at the door of The Authorities (police, govt & banks). Naturally they were outweighed by "bring back the birch and send 'em all to Guantanamo" rants, but still. If the Mail's putting forth the views of oppressed majorities, tides must be changing.

I agree that we made a big mistake in dismantling our industries, and that it was Thatcher's government which made that mistake. It's all water under the bridge now, though - question is, what can we do?

I'd still like to see the banks paying back the "loans" we made them, but that ain't happening ... They're about to get even more, aren't they? Chucking more money where the sun don't shine; we must be suckers.

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

"I'd still like to see the banks paying back the "loans" we made them, but that ain't happening "

It has already happened. The 2008 loans were mostly short-term deals up to 3 years. As it's now 2011 those loans have been paid back with interest which has gone to the exchequer. The country bought shares in other banks which we still own and which, one day, we will sell - hopefully also for a profit. As for being given more money, where did you hear that? Continental banks are certainly in trouble but UK banks aren't asking for help at the moment.

[EdithWeston]

If you're blaming Thatcher, you're totally undermining OP as Mrs T was a state school pupil brought up at home by her own parents.

[Andrewofgg]

In 1983 Ms Thatcher won the biggest election victory in history; more votes, and a higher share, even than Blair in 1997. Somebody liked here and her party and her policies, and don't anyone forget it.

[CaptainNancy]

There isn't a 'countryside' in Britain though- all the land is owned by a few very wealthy landowners.

Are you honestly saying that people without jobs and benefits should have to live in shanty towns?

Have you ever been to a shanty town?

Thought not.

[maypole1]

4 people are dead, people have lost their homes and others have lost their lively hoods

But of course it's all the faults of the privately educated why people killed, robbed and pillaged
my god I have heard it all now

And btw all these people going on about George being on holiday milliband had a lovely tan when he eventually got back don't you think

[maypole1]

And Thatcher god the sandal, lefties and really digging deep

This is what the guardian reads wanted so why arnt. You happy


A state where you can smack or raise your voice to a child
State were what a child has to to say is more important that a adult
A state were we pay people to sit and home and encourage than to have as many children as they like weather they can parent or not
A state were it's the governments job to provide you with money to get a education


The age of entailment were the takers take and the tax payer pays

[Davida]

Absent fathers? Maybe. Boys need a father figure or they can become disruptive..apparently. I read it somewhere.

apparently between 7 and 14 they connect to their father, or whatever man is around and boys who don't get this tend to achieve less well in all sorts of ways.

Not sure where I read this or how true it is. It's something to do with discipline as well, I mean the fathering role, and if that's lost then perhaps they don't grow up so respectful.

[didyouseewhatshedid]

To pick up on a point garlicbutter made re Thatcher dismantling our industries. It's futile to blame that on Thatcher. Lots has been written about the amount of subsidy that was being pumped into the likes of British Leyland, the Mining industry etc in order to compensate for the fact that they were a milllion miles away from being economically viable. Millions per day was being pumped into these 'industries'. Thatcher had the balls to recognise globalisation was upon us and things were only going to get worse. So she bit the bullet and let them stand - or fall - on their own two feet. Shame politicians these days dont have her front.

[Lifeissweet]

Sorry, Maypole. I don't understand the first sentence.

I had no idea that I wasn't allowed to smack or raise my voice to my child. As it happens, I believe that smacking is only showing children to hit and there's no point in raising my voice because DS is deaf, but hey ho.

I was not aware that we were 'encouraging people to have as many children as they like whether they can parent or not' I thought we provided a safety net for children born into poverty so that they stand a remote chance of pulling themselves out of the poverty trap.

As for: 'A state where it's the Government's job to provide you with money to get an education' I really don't get that. Educating people is for the benefit of the whole of society. I feel proud and privileged to have been brought up in a country with free education and health care. It is a sign of a civilised society to me. I'm not sure what point you are trying to make, maypole.

[maypole1]

Davida now a days its not uncommon for the mothers to not even know who the dad is, we evan have children being born were its not clear what race the child Evan is because the mother has slept with that many different men


But again the lefties told us we were not to stigmatise this behaviour

These women often have so many different men coming in and out it's hard for the children to bond with any one

[Lifeissweet]

Maypole, where on Earth are you from that that situation is not uncommon?!

[maypole1]

Lifeissweet


Every time someone one on welfare has another child their money goes up not down


Start a thread about smacking and see how many nm call abuse Ect
.

Ema loss is not a reason to burn peoples houses and to be honest these people get enough money from us with out bribing them to go to collage were no doubt they cash the money and hardly show up.

Sorry but if you have to bribe someone to go into education is their not a question wether they really want to learn

If you child wants to go to collage them the parents should pay not me and not the government

And it's lets give them on plate lefty attitude that has got us were we are

They thing the world owes them a living were are already lying for their mums to sit at home what more do they want

[maypole1]

I work in ss, see it often the mothers cannot tell you the name of the fathers as they don't know, had several children born were the mothers cannot tell if the child is going to be white, half Asian or black

This is were we have got to

And in my personal life I know of at lest two people who have not got the foggest who their children fathers are