feral teenage mum rioter- does she deserve her council flat and her child?

[porcamiseria]

www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23977196-shame-of-the-mother-who-saw-her-bad-daughter-looting-in-tottenham.do


I get that there are underlying issues, and that castigating the "scum" underclass is not going to acheive anything but this story for me, epitimises things

how can anyone defend her right to be a mother, and her right to benefits and a council flat? now she will go to prison, her poor child will either go to his grandmother or into care, and the cycle continues

something needs to be done to disincentivise girls like this from having children. I am not advocating sterilisation, or having kids wrought off their mothers in labour ward BUT we have a society where girls like this have babies, and they are the kids that end up rioting

people say that education and support is the answer, but in some cases people should NOT have any more kids and I think we are being far too liberal, she's a bad un. end of.

[catgirl1976]

what are you advocating then?

[MaryMotherOfCheeses]

What do you suggest?

[EdithWeston]

No-one has a "right" to be a parent. But all sorts of people become parents - you cannot legislate out a biological process.

The child however does have a right to be adequately cared for - and intervention may be necessary to protect the children of criminals. And everyone has the right to shelter.

[EdithWeston]

BTW, I do see the logic in evicting rioters from the areas they have destroyed (though there might still be an obligation to rehome them elsewhere). If someone has demonstrated such comtempt for their environs that they wreck it, then moving them out from a place they clearly have no regard for does seem to be in both their interests and that of the non-destructive community.

[catgirl1976]

Would you like them to be re-homed to your neighbourhood Edith - or just put out onto the streets?

[ChumleeIsMyHomeboy]

I can't find any argument against placing the children of these people with families who will care for and appreciate them whilst the children are still young enough and before the damage is done.

[porcamiseria]

good question!

no council flats for teenage mums, end of. if they cant support themselves they either have to stay at home, or go into a mum and baby unit

this would I suspect increase child welfare and decrease the amounts of babies being born to mums like this

I also think that people with major major substance abuse issues shoiuld be offered a cash incentive for (reversible) sterilisation, its a hot potato but in some cases I think its needed

I dont know, we have got ourselves into a pickle in the UK. you cant cut benefits as it impacts the kids, but something needs to be done to disincentivise certain people from having kids

[usualsuspect]

because its so so easy to get a council flat

[FunnysInTheGarden]

oh this has to be a Daily Fail double whammy of a thread. I mean how much worse could you get? I would say hang and quarter her and then throw her children into a life of prostitution. Job done, no more strain on the welfare state.

[catgirl1976]

And how much will it cost taxpayer to put them in mum and baby units or increase the size of the parental home to ensure there is adequate room to house them?

And as for paying the desperate and the vulnerable to be able to sterilise them

[Sharney]

She stole a pair of shoes for gods sake. Thieving is wrong of coarse but really, "her right to be a mother"? For nicking shoes?

[EdithWeston]

I did mention the likely need to rehome. I would not support the measure if it meant "out on the street".

I suppose they would have to take their chances on what was available.

Yes, there is social housing in my neighbourhood. No I wouldn't mind new tenants there. A fresh start can be a good thing.

[twinklypearls]

I was told I had to wait 10 years to get a council flat, I would love to know where they are handed out so easily.

[sunshinelifeisgood]

yabu: this post is taking the past few days of trouble to far..... shame on you

[usualsuspect]

fucking sick of the knee jerk reactions on MN

Fucks knows why I opened this thread

[catgirl1976]

Yes. I think we already have a criminal justice system which has punishements for theft. As far as I am aware, they don't include removing children thank god.

[MaryMotherOfCheeses]

Yes, the riots really have shown some people in this country at their worst.

[squeakytoy]

In some areas flats are handed out very very easily, if you manage to tick the right boxes. I know quite a few people who have done it.

[porcamiseria]

catgirl, I am not saying desperate and vulnerable! I am saying if mum x has long term heroin addiction, has had 2 kids, both in care now, would it not be better to offer her £1000 so that she does not bring more klids that will end up in a shitty care home too?

the sad fact is these kids DONT get adopted, and they end up having shitty childhoods.

and people do get council flats too, sorry but they do, I know some of them!

bottom line is her kid now will get fucked up as she will go to prison, and I bet you anything she had him to get a flat, sorry, some people do!

[GypsyMoth]

same views on the looting fathers is it??

[MrsRhettButler]

Can you post the link again please? I can't seem to get to it....

[FunnysInTheGarden]

ah come on Usual we could have a good laugh at the folks who blame the rioters/parents of the rioters/ police instead of realising that the political state of the country is to blame.

I mean strip the most deprived areas of their only source of legitimate income ie council jobs and what do you expect? It reminds me of the early 80"s

[catgirl1976]

I think long term herion addiction DOES equal desperate and vulnerable. Of course it is a tragedy for children born into that situaiton. I just don't agree paying people to take their wombs is ethical

[usualsuspect]

really ,do you live on a council estate at all squeakytoy?

[StayingDavidTennantsGirl]

I suspect that there are a lot of girls who have no aspirations and little or no hope, because they haven't got a good education (poor schools, poor home support, living in areas where no-one works, so why would you think that a good education is worth while), and they are looking for some sort of validation and status in society - and having a boyfriend gives them this. It gives them some affection, and status, so they carry on having sex in order to keep the relationship. I think that their only identity lies in their sexuality and in having these relationships.

Maybe they also think that a baby will give them unconditional love - and they crave that, plus they want the sense of family that they think being part of the mum, dad and baby unit will give them.

What to do about it is a lot harder, though. Pay girls to have norplant until they have left school with some qualifications, maybe? Find ways of reaching them in school, and before they even start school, so that they can achieve the highest qualifications they are capable of, and can believe that they have a future that doesn't just involve boys, sex and having babies, but involves them earning their own money, being independant, and getting the sense of self-worth that will give them - so that when they do decide to have sex, it is on their terms, and not because it is their only option.