Top e-petition demands axing of benefits for rioters

[sherbertdipdab]

good idea or not?

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-14474429

I bet if they did get benefits axed there would be another riot because
'it's not fair, we didn't know they would do that, they can't change the rules'

As the first few people charged were a teaching assistant and a youth worker it make me think most of it is opportunistic thieving, brain dead mob mentality. Hopefully they will be sacked.

[Bestb411pm]

Not.

That theory reads something like 'if we take the homes away from all these angry violent people, they'll have literally nothing left to lose. Then they'll calm down and become reasonable'

[ShellyBoobs]

It's an absolutely excellent idea.

[smoggii]

That's what I was thunking....but i have had a bottle of wine

No more benefits that'll learn'em

[HumphreyCobbler]

policy on the hoof is never good policy, just knee jerk policy.

[SiamoFottuti]

yes because people with no source of income at all really definitely won't steal things. Wait a minute.....

[pigletmania]

Put them in prison, nice long custodial sentance

[IWantWine]

So.. it is acceptable to give money to these louts? these thugs? why?

I have no money so I work! I have worked hard all my life. If I want something I buy it. I dont go out and join in a riot! Jesus!

I truly believe that things started to go wrong in this society when they stopped the use of the cane! Simple as!

[LineRunner]

Pointless twaddle.

[ShellyBoobs]

yes because people with no source of income at all really definitely won't steal things. Wait a minute.....

If you provide a welfare system that ensures people have a roof over their head and food on the table, they won't loot and riot. Wait a minute.....

[catgirl1976]

Silly petition. Knee jerk, over simplisitic and completely workable idea with no thought to the reality. Sentiment without any sense.

[LineRunner]

Oh and by the way, just so we're clear, which country was it that interfered with the Isle of Man, its parliament, and birching? Oh yes, the Uk. That would be right. The UK's Home Office got all 'EU' and put a stop to the IoM using corporal punishment on convicted offenders.

Whilst I was personally pleased with that intervention, let's not kid ourselves that the UK will ever, ever bring back corporal or capital punishment and the e-petitions are a load of time-wasting exploitative crap.

[ShellyBoobs]

Even better...

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-14478498

[SiamoFottuti]

ShelleyBoobs, you can't just reverse a sentance and hope it makes sense. Yours doesn't.

[ShellyBoobs]

SiamoFottuti

It makes as much sense as your sentance [sic].

[SiamoFottuti]

No, it really doesn't. You need it explaining, really?

[LareyLaptopLover]

make them compensate their victims with the benefits they would get

[ShellyBoobs]

SiamoFottuti No thanks.

[GypsyMoth]

the first two convicted mentioned in op are working men.....what benefits are they on then??

[GypsyMoth]

and the 'youths' wont be claiming if under 16...so,how?

[Bestb411pm]

"I truly believe that things started to go wrong in this society when they stopped the use of the cane! Simple as!"

I believe things started going wrong a long time before that and not one generation since has produced a government that has tried anything productive or long term to counter the side effects of capitalism, modernisation or effective legal deterrents, or the mistakes of previous governments (despite still managing to use them as a PR exercise).

Perhaps if we made politician a voluntary, position corruption from the top down would be minimised. The best public servants are the ones who see it as a vocation not a career.

[EdithWeston]

We don't yet know if there is a "typical" rioter (I'm still rather at the learning mentor, tbh) or if they are poverty stricken.

I'm against this measure because:
a) it's knee jerk, and just as premature as any pundit trying to ascribe causes (it will be important to look at the causes, in the interests of preventing similar in future - but we haven't enough to go on to start pontificating)
b) it wouldn't have any effect on these criminals, as it changes to regulations aren't retrospective
c) the potential for unintended consequences is too high.

Is there not any existing provision for fines to be deducted from benefits? For some reason, I thought there was. If there is, it should be used, and would send the same message - if you are convicted, you will pay, whatever your means - but it wouldn't be a catastrophic severance.

This does however usefully point out the unreliability of e-petition as a sound basis for legislation. A Commons debate based on ideas that come up this way would be valuable, but more than that looks increasingly silly.

[ShellyBoobs]

the first two convicted mentioned in op are working men.....what benefits are they on then??

Hopefully they'll lose their jobs. In which case they'll be claiming benefits. Or rather they won't be, if there's any justice.

[IWantWine]

bestb411pm you are right of course. But I do feel that my very simplistic view is valid. When kids misbehave now, what happens? detention? loss of pc? phone? well, I am not sure that that would have made much impact on me as a child but... I very definitely did not want the cane. I suppose it is too late now to reintroduce that kind of punishment in schools but, when it was in use, it was effective and as far as I can see, it didnt do any of us any harm.

[A1980]

You're assuming that every one of the rioters claims benefits. ALot of them appear to be working, so called respectable citizens. I hope they all realise that they've risked (and in some cases have got) a criminal record in order to steal a pair of trainers they could probably afford to buy anyway.