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to put a child in nursery if it has a grade 4 from ofsted after being a grade one

(24 Posts)
flickor Wed 10-Aug-11 12:32:14

My DD is just about to go into nursery that has moved to a new site. At the old side it was an outstanding nursery however it has just received a grade four. I have seen the report and there are a whole load of fours on each criteria. The location and facilities of the nursery are very good and I got a good vibe. Should I just ignore the report or find another nursery ? (May sound a bit insignificant compared to what is happening to the country)

Madlizzy Wed 10-Aug-11 12:35:27

I'd be concerned. That's a sharp drop to unsatisfactory!

jade80 Wed 10-Aug-11 12:36:57

Ofsted mainly talk bollocks. Read what they have to say, but make your own judgement. What have they been criticised for?

Take what Ofsted say with a heap of salt. The inspectors don't have to be very well qualified or experienced in the early years... I've met a couple I wouldn't leave in charge of a hamster.

Littlefish Wed 10-Aug-11 12:38:51

I really think it would depend what the "fours" were for. If they were for care, then I would think really carefully about it.

TheJiminyConjecture Wed 10-Aug-11 12:45:15

I took my DD out of a supposedly 'outstanding' nursery and put her in a 'satisfactory' one.

The quality of care she received was not in any way proportionate to the level granted by Ofsted.

The 1st nursery was newer, brighter and recently refurbed. The one she's at now is still nice but not clearly not as new.

The displays were better in the first but didn't change in the 6+ months we saw them. The 2nd one are slightly 'scruffier' but since they are replaced every few weeks I'm not suprised!

I have to say putting DD in a so called 'worse' nursery is the best decision I've made in a long time. grin

iliketea Wed 10-Aug-11 12:45:15

Personally, I would go with your instincts. When we were looking for a nursery, we went for one with a lower ofsted grading than another we looked at purely from how we felt when we looked around. And my dd is really happy there - more than anything, the children were happy when we looked around the one that we chose, whereas in the one with the great ofsted report, the children didn't seem to be having any fun.

smallpotato Wed 10-Aug-11 12:46:54

What do the nursery say about it? I dunno what the grades are, but DD's nursery was ranked as unsatisfactory in some areas. They were honest and told me when I went to view it, explained the reasons why (they went under staff ratio for a few minutes, there was bad flooring in one room) and explained to me what they had done to rectify the issues. It was by far the best nursery I saw, had a lovely feeling to it even compared to some 'outstanding' nurseries. So I went with my gut and signed her up. Not started yet though.

smallpotato Wed 10-Aug-11 12:46:54

What do the nursery say about it? I dunno what the grades are, but DD's nursery was ranked as unsatisfactory in some areas. They were honest and told me when I went to view it, explained the reasons why (they went under staff ratio for a few minutes, there was bad flooring in one room) and explained to me what they had done to rectify the issues. It was by far the best nursery I saw, had a lovely feeling to it even compared to some 'outstanding' nurseries. So I went with my gut and signed her up. Not started yet though.

flickor Wed 10-Aug-11 12:57:07

DD just waking up but basically there seems to be a lack of awareness about safeguarding the children and a lack of developing their learning. The nursery has been quite proactive about tackling these issues.

HoneyPablo Wed 10-Aug-11 13:00:34

I wouldn't be put off. It may just be temporary, after the move. Have the staff changed? Most OFSTED inspectors look far more at paperwork than they do the actual facilities.
it is good that they nursery has been identifiedas having issues. It means they will have an idea of what to address.
Any chance of linking to the report?

flickor Thu 11-Aug-11 16:34:12

can't link to the report directly as not sure MN rules on such things however main issue was a lack of risk assessments and staff development. Generally though there has been a lack of organisation. Keeping all options open but looking at some other nurseries.

BoysAreLikeDogs Thu 11-Aug-11 17:13:10

lack of awareness on safeguarding is a bit of an erk isn't it

developing the children's learning is a bit woolly IYSWIM

could you pick out a critical phrase or two for us? from the report I mean

RitaMorgan Thu 11-Aug-11 17:16:23

No way would I put a child of mine in an unsatisfactory setting. I have worked in a pretty shit (grade 3/satisfactory) nursery myself and know how a good front can be put on for parents (and Ofsted!). If they haven't even managed to pull it together for one day in front of Ofsted inspectors then it is probably much worse on a daily basis.

Marney Thu 11-Aug-11 19:25:32

I worked in nurseries years ago saw a lot of bullying of children left one because i was getting shouted at for not shouting at a little girl for crying told just shout at her .This nursery got outstanding .If the main nursry nurse is confident and a good actor they can easily give a good impression for a day I would take more notice of how happy the children are and trust my own instincts .Ive been a childminder since I really think ofsted visits dont have any value its all very false would be very happy though to work in a nursery with cameras and thats how i think nurserys would improve .I think the cameras should link into centres with highly qualified caring people who could watch when they choose not with the ofsted approach more a mutual respect set up where they could call in to suggest improvements not youve faled more can we help

MuddlingMackem Thu 11-Aug-11 19:36:26

I don't know, it depends. Personally I would say go with the vibe you get.

The nursery our two went to didn't do great in an Ofsted, but I noticed all the things Ofsted marked on were things we weren't bothered about and all the things that mattered to us didn't count with Ofsted!

Circumstances meant we ended up having to go for a nursery when really our first instincts were to go with a childminder, but the nursery we went with had a really homely vibe which sold us on it instantly. The staff were caring, kids ran to them to give them hugs. The building was a little shabby and lots of the toys were well-loved, but it was warm and welcoming and the staff all cared about the children.

However, shortly before dd left it was taken over by a new owner who has smartened it up, bought loads of new toys, removed the television and is basically desperate to get a Grade 1 in Ofsted. Even though it's the same staff there as in our day I'm honestly not sure I'd recommend it anymore, it's just too shiny and polished now and has totally lost the homely vibe which pulled us in. I would say that you should try and visit during the pick-up window and see if you can chat to any of the parents. Catch them in the car-park though, not right outside the entrance door. LOL!

chocolatchaud Thu 11-Aug-11 19:37:03

How long ago was the original level 1 awarded?
Have there been any staff changes since?
How long have they been in the new premises?
How long after they moved did Ofsted visit?

I would guess that there has been a significant gap since the last Ofsted visit and things have changed dramatically. Add in to that they are settling into a new location, which will have an impact on how things run in the short term, and I am not surprised that they have been down-graded.

However, it is a huge jump. Think you need to ask lots of questions before deciding.

DisgustedofTumbridgeWells Thu 11-Aug-11 19:42:17

I pulled my DD out of a nursery after a month because it got an unsatisfactory ofsted report. I already had my concerns though. I think safeguarding is one of the most important areas TBH nd I wouldn't be happy sending my child to a nursery that had failed on this.

tryingtobemarypoppins2 Thu 11-Aug-11 19:45:01

Wouldn't that put the nursery into 'Special Measures'. Grade 4 is a serious concern IMO.

flickor Fri 12-Aug-11 13:16:31

"Overall the quality of the provision is inadequate.

Children's safety and welfare is compromised as policies and procedures are not effectively implemented by staff. The provision welcomes all children but does not always effectively meet their individual needs, with particular reference to the organisation of the environment.

On the whole, their learning is suitably promoted. Systems for evaluation and monitoring staff practice are weak and therefore areas for development are not prioritised in order to support continuous improvement. The provision works suitably in partnership with parents and carers in order to support continuity of care for children.

Overall, the early years provision requires significant improvement. "

That is the summary of the report.

The nursery moved about eight months ago - I think the last ofsted was two years ago. The new place is purpose built and it is clean and welcoming. For me it is the lack of organisation of the environment which worries me. I am looking at another nursery today

HoneyPablo Fri 12-Aug-11 13:58:22

That would worry me. You are doing the right thing in looking elsewhere.
Children's safety and welfare should be paramount and should never be comprimised.
it does sound as if the staff are not very well trained or motivated. I work in early years and would be devastated to be in a setting that received that report.

PrincessScrumpy Fri 12-Aug-11 14:21:37

That would worry me and I'm fairly laid back re ofsted. My cm was satisfactory but she was marked down on her paperwork and communication with parents - basically she would talk to me at the end of the day but ofsted wanted it written down - I was happy that she spent the time playing with dd rather than writing stuff she can tell me herself. I also met a cm who was graded good but her house smelled strongly of smoke and she had a big dog that "played" with the kids, plus many other issues.

On the whole, your gut feeling counts the most but the nursery staff must be quite demoralised by the report and the areas for concern are fairly big ones. I would look around. Good luck.

northerngirl41 Fri 12-Aug-11 14:35:54

Presumably it's the outstanding nursery taking over the crap nursery? In which case Ofsted could review in 12 months and it'll be brilliant due to the changes they make?

CaptainNancy Fri 12-Aug-11 14:43:39

A 4 for safe guarding is a big red flag!
I would pull my child out, and certainly not start one there.

flickor Fri 12-Aug-11 15:29:33

cheers guys for your help. The nursery I saw today is good and easier to get to. Your advice has help

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