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To have signed this pro-gay marriage e-peition?

(126 Posts)
wikiphilia Sat 06-Aug-11 15:22:44

Message deleted by Mumsnet.

LineRunner Sat 06-Aug-11 15:24:54

I believe in equal rights for all.

Andrewofgg Sat 06-Aug-11 15:25:52

Civil partnership equates to marriage.

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe Sat 06-Aug-11 15:30:18

What does marriage assume differently to a civil partnership? Are there different rights inferred?

Some people don't differentiate between 'living together' and being married, so I just wondered whether there was a material difference between marriage and CP.

worraliberty Sat 06-Aug-11 15:30:29


I know this is totally beside the point but who on earth typed it? They didn't even bother to spell check!

<Pedantic head on>

nickelbabe Sat 06-Aug-11 15:31:45

Andrew - it's not the same though.

It's a cop-out.

wiki YANBU. It's a silly rule that same-sex marriages can't be done in this day and age, and then twats continue with their opinion that gay people are promiscuous.

Mitmoo Sat 06-Aug-11 15:38:36

I am a little concerned as to how this will be implemented while allowing the churches to carry on as normal. Now I am not religous but respect the rights of those who are. If this is the first step to gay people being allowed to demand a Catholic Wedding for example, but the church can't go along with that due to the leaders of their church then what?

Does the church go the same way the Catholic adoption agencies go?

I really don't mind gay marriages so long as it doesn't interfere with the rights of religous people to carry on with their faith.

If it can be managed with common sense so there are EQUAL RIGHTS for all, then I'd sign it, just not sure there are so many anomolies with previous legislation then I wouldn't.

FrenchRuby Sat 06-Aug-11 15:39:49

YANBU I support this 100% My brother is gay and I would love it if he could get married if he wanted to. I agree it's a stupid rule.

nickelbabe Sat 06-Aug-11 15:40:48

I think that's probably the reason why they won't do it, mitmoo

Mitmoo Sat 06-Aug-11 15:42:02

Lying I think the only difference is that there can be a religious element to the service.

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe Sat 06-Aug-11 15:43:50

nickelbabe... How is it not the same? I'm interested and have just looked at the Citizen's Advice website on Civil Partnerships and marriage and the two points of difference seem to be: Civil partnership ratified when second partner signs the certificate; for marriage it's when both partners have spoken their vows.

The other point is that whilst the ceremony for marriage can be secular or non-secular; for civil partnerships it can only be secular. Is that the issue? Religious ceremonies?

If so, I'd say that anybody who wants to get married/civil partnered should be able to do so in a church, but I doubt that will change anytime soon.

Thankfully, the rights of both partners, married or CP'd are protected in the same way.

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe Sat 06-Aug-11 15:44:59

Mitmoo... Thanks, just had a look at a website, I think you're right.

The Doctrine of the Church is going to be immoveable, I think. It is on so many issues.

LineRunner Sat 06-Aug-11 15:45:35

Gay people want to be able to be legally married (as opposed to being in a civil union) if they choose.

Many religions will undoubtedly refuse to marry them in their places of worship.

But the principle will be there in law that a same sex couple can be legally married.

Tbh most gay couples I know would be happier with a register office anyway.

Mitmoo Sat 06-Aug-11 15:45:59

Here are some examples my reservations about the equality laws.

Let's take the Christian B&B who had to close down, yet there are gay B&Bs and hotels all over the place. That's not equality.

Both should be allowed to trade.

Or the Catholic adoption agencies who closed down when there is an agency to help only Gay lesbian and transgenders to adopt. That's not equality.

Both should be allowed to help children find homes.

Mitmoo Sat 06-Aug-11 15:48:51

Many religions will undoubtedly refuse to marry them in their places of worship

Line that's my concern, if there is equality legislation so far as having a religious element, are they going to adopt some common sense for a change so that the churches can't be sued or closed for refusing?

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe Sat 06-Aug-11 15:51:35

LineRunner... I had a registry office wedding, much preferred it to anything in a church.

I'm very much in favour of equality and, from the viewpoint that there may well be religious same-sex couples who would like to marry in church but can't - and there are non-religious couples who can jump a hoop or two to marry in church (and shouldn't), I think it's very hypocritical.

LineRunner Sat 06-Aug-11 15:52:41

Mit, the church can already refuse to marry people, though, by reason of divorce, existing religion, place of residence.

Mitmoo Sat 06-Aug-11 15:55:49

Line I am in favour of equality too, and if they can accommodate religous people and the gay community which shouldn't really be rocket science, then good luck to them.

Mitmoo Sat 06-Aug-11 15:58:18

line they can and so long as they can still refuse to marry gay people if they don't want to, then I have no problem with it at all.

LineRunner Sat 06-Aug-11 16:00:51

Ah Mit, it all gets tricky when a religion wants the freedom not to marry gay people, and gay people want the freedom to be married in their religion.

I do think that the shift in attitudes towards gay people in my lifetime has been amazingly positive, although some very shitty attitudes remain; and on the other hand there is much less deference felt towards church doctrine.

I was brought up in a fairly strict religion (Methodist) but I'm now a rampant bleeding heart liberal!

Mitmoo Sat 06-Aug-11 16:03:47

I haven't looked at the legislation but so long as the church can continue to make it's choice, whatever church that is, not to marry then crack on.

Andrewofgg Sat 06-Aug-11 16:06:33

Churches can now host civil partnership ceremonies but the law also lays down that they cannot be sued for not doing so. If same-sex marriage is introduced that is an essential safeguard.

I hope also that existing registrars with a conscientious objection will be allowed to opt out, as did not happen with c.p. In many areas that was done informally but in others it was not, hence the Ladele case which was correctly decided accordingly to a law with a defect in it.

Mitmoo Sat 06-Aug-11 16:10:38

I didn't understand your last sentence Andrew, I've just googled the Ladele case, did she win on appeal or not?

flyingspaghettimonster Sat 06-Aug-11 16:17:52

I'll sign, because I think everyone should have equal rights in society. I am not sure I agree that gay people should fight the religious groups for the right to be married within that religion, though. The way I see it, if your religion says you are abhorrent and should burn in hell, you need a new religion, not a gritted-teeth fingers-crossed-behind-back blessing by some nobber in a fancy robe making it up as he goes along.

LineRunner Sat 06-Aug-11 16:25:32

I can see why the principle matters, though. If politicians are going to benefit from the rhetoric that 'marriage is the cornerstone of society' then all adults should have equal access to that state.

Including, dare I say it, priests. Bless 'em.

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