DH has told me my reasons for wanting to move are ridiculous - are they?

[whoneedssleepanyway]

So we live in a two bed terrace with our two DDs who have shared a bedroom since DD2 was 11 months.

I have wanted to move for a while but DH has kept saying to wait and see what happens with his latest business. I am at the stage now where I really want to move. DD1 starts school in September and it would be nice for her to have her own room as she does get disturbed by DD2 in the morning as DD2 has always been an early waker and poor sleeper. Also their room isn't very big, in fact it would be too small for 2 single beds so they have bunk beds and with them both getting bigger it would be nice to have more space.

I would like to have the space to have family and friends over more, my family is dispersed around the country with my sister overseas and we can never have any of the them to stay, also my best friend (who is godmother to DD1 and I am godmother to her DS) lives over 100 miles away from us and we always stay with them and can never have them to stay with us. DH has told me that these aren't reasons for needing a bigger house, they are "nice to haves", and at the end of the day we have adequate space for the 4 of us which is what matters.

We could afford to move somewhere bigger but it would mean moving to not such a central area and DH basically doesn't want to do this, in fact has refused point blank to even consider some of the areas I have suggested. He keeps saying what is the point in spending money on a move if in a few years this latest business is successful and we could afford somewhere bigger, we will have wasted the money moving. I don't look at it like that and think this is our home and so if we have to spend money to have a better quality of life so be it.

I said I wanted us to set a timescale by which we would move, ideally I would have liked this to be in time to make DD2's reception application in Dec 2012 as otherwise we will be moving and trying to find a school for the 2 girls that has spaces in both their years and it would be nice at least if DD2 didn't have to move school. Again DH has dismissed this as being a reason and says loads of children change schools and we just have to deal with this.

He also says setting some "arbitrary" timescale as he calls it is ridiculous, what is the point, we should just wait and see what happens. I don't think it is unreasonable to plan for things.

I just feel like I have supported him with all the business ventures he has tried, I have stayed in a job that I don't like very much and has an awful commute so that we have a guaranteed income, I have waited and waited to move but just feel like enough is enough and at some point we can't keep waiting for what might happen and be around the corner. Added to which we have done nothing to our house for ages, I would have liked to have spent some money on the garden having it done up/ new patio etc but DH kept saying wait until we move...but that just isn't happening.

He told me my reasons were ridiculous and that I should just listen to him but I feel like all the above are valid reasons and he should consider them and at the very least agree that we will set some kind of timetable at which point we will say enough waiting.

I realise all this makes him sound really really selfish, and he isn't in other things and I think he just gets so wrapped up in trying to make his businesses a success that he loses sight of other things.

AIBU?

[mumblechum1]

YANBU. Your house sounds v cramped at the moment and if you can afford to move (and can bear all the hassle associated with that) then I'd go for it.

We've always over reached ourselves, always going for houses which are much bigger than we "need" and much more expensive than we could initially afford, but it's always paid off.

[Witchofthenorth]

YANBU.....they are very valid reasons, I think you should push for a proper timetable so at least you can plan. Is he completely immovable in this?

[squeakytoy]

I do think he is fobbing you off, and yes, your reasons are all perfectly valid.

The bit that would concern me is

I just feel like I have supported him with all the business ventures he has tried

Perhaps he feels that his latest "venture" will fail, and you could end up financially stuck. He sounds like a bit of a dreamer to be honest, and I think that more than anything would infuriate me.

[DoingTheBestICan]

YANBU,there is nothing wrong in wanting a bigger home for your family to enjoy.
Your reasons are not ridiculous at all,is your dh worried about taking on a bigger mortgage?

[BooyHoo]

i think your DH is just adamant that he wont be moving. are his reasons 'real' as in, do you see how his reasons for not moving make sense? is it just a case of weighing up who has more valid reasons or his he just making excuses because he doesn't want to be bothered moving?

your reasons sound like good reasons to me. if your dd1 is having her sleep disturbed then i think it is quite important that she gets a separate room from her sister and if you are to do this then yes, moving before tehy are bothe settled in school would be preferable to shifting them later.

how much further from his business would you be moving if it did happen?

[whoneedssleepanyway]

Thanks, we are very lucky in that we do have a small mortgage at the moment and could afford to take on a bigger one, particularly as DD1 starting school will mean our childcare costs will decrease as we won't bee paying for expensive full day nursery care for her.

He does worry about taking on a bigger mortgage but even if our mortgage was 2.5 x what it is now it wouldn't be enormous and would be manageable.

Squeaky - that is what is annoying me, I said ok fine but what will we do if this latest venture doesn't come off (and he reckons within a couple of months there will be a good indication of whether or not he can make a go of it) and he is just like, we'll just have to think about it then.

For now I have agreed to wait two more months but at that point I want a decision, I think he is hoping he can just fob me off again...

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

YANBU... in fact, you sound like my parents. Mum's the ambitious type that wants to progress whereas Dad's an old stick in the mud that hates change of any kind. Has led to near-divorce standard arguments and lengthy silences in the past so you have my sympathy. No idea what you can do about it, however, besides keep getting house details, pestering the life out of him and forcing the issue. Not like you can put your house on the market without his agreement.

[trixymalixy]

YANBU, moving before the girls start school seems the obvious time to move.

[wannaBe]

your reasons are not invalid:

1. your dd's are getting bigger, and to expect them to share a room for an indefinite period of time is unreasonable. Yes it is do-able, but if you can afford for them to have their own rooms then it's reasonable to take that step. Point out to him that they might well grow to resent him in future if they realise that the reason they had to share a room was essentially because he was too tight to allow it.
   

1. Having people to stay is a nice-to-have so I would concede that, but point out that nice-to-haves's, while not reasons for moving are things that make a move more positive.
   

1. schooling is a very valid reason. Yes, children move schools all the time, but the process is an absolute nightmare. We are moving this week and have just one ds and the process of being able to get him into a school is horrendous, with no guarantee that he will get into a local school at all. But eve if he does, I would point out to your ds that the chances of being able to get both your dc into the same school at the same time are highly unlikely, and that you think he will use this as an excuse to not move in the future which again, is unreasonable.
   

You say that you've been supporting him through his business "ventures", sorry to be direct, but have any of these ventures paid off? or is he just frittering money chasing pipe-dreams while you are supporting your family? It sounds as if he does what he wants while you're the one carrying the financial burden here, and I would be rather inclined to tell him that it's time to stop playing and get a proper job so he can support his family, rather than expecting his family to live in cramped conditions so he can play at making money.

[whoneedssleepanyway]

wannaBe your experience with schooling scares the crap out of me, this is what I told DH, that when we move if it is too far away for DD1 to carry on at the school she is starting in Sept then we will be reliant on there being a place at a local school in the area move and there are no guarantees and we could be allocated a place anywhere, he just shrugs it off as not being a major issue, I think I need to raise this with him again as having the DDs at two different schools would be very far from ideal.

In terms of supporting his business ventures, to be blunt, no none have particularly paid off, they haven't lost us a shed load of cash but they haven't particularly made us much either. I admire his resiliance to keep going and trying new things and I know that many successful entrepreneurs have several unsuccessful attempts behind them before making a success of something but like you say this can only go on for so long and it has been 6 years that I have been supporting these ideas.

[Laquitar]

The thing is that he doesn't say 'no', he says 'later'. This imo can drive others crazy. As you said you haven't even done the garden, so you don't feel settled.
You need to sit down and decide to either a) move now b) extend c) wait and see house prices and how his business does BUT with a specific timetable.

[Laquitar]

Does he like your family

[ChristinedePizan]

You have been supporting his business ventures for six years? And you have a horrible commute to a job you don't like to do that? I'm interested to know at what point your wants and needs (and those of your children) come into consideration because they seem to be getting very overlooked.

Anyway, as you haven't asked for any comment on your relationship, will focus on the issue at hand. I absolutely agree with wannabe, schools should be the major consideration. You may find somewhere with a space in Year one (that does happen) but you will need to be in situ by November really to start the application process and banging on the doors. Once your DD1 is in somewhere, then your DD2 should get in under siblings.

And once your children have homework to do and are going to want friends round to play, it is better if they can have their own room. Obviously it's not critical to their wellbeing but if you can afford it, I would do it.

[grovel]

If he's really tied up in a new start-up I can understand that having the hassle of a move in the background would be very disturbing.

[gorionine]

Your house sounds v cramped at the moment

I am going to go agaist the flow here but I desagree with that, 4 people in a 2 bedroom house is not cramped IMHO. As a family of 6 we lived for 4 years in a 2 bedroom house too (7 years with 5 of us), 4 Dcs sharing same bedroom. I am not saying it is ideal but 2 adults and 2 young children is not cramped either. Also, we have managed to have family staying as where there is a will there is a way!

WRT business ventures, maybe agreeing that if this one does not work finding more stable work would be beneficial for the family? TBH I do not know what I would do, I think it it was a choice between seing DH blossoming and having a bit less space or seeing him depressed in a job he hates in a large house I would go for the first option. I think only you will know how much your family would be affected by moving or staying. There seem to be several factors that make you unhappy to stay where you are now but am not sure that your 2 Dds -which seem quite young as your DD1 is only just going to start school- is actually a 'must' at the moment.

[whoneedssleepanyway]

Laquitar sadly extending isn't an option the house has already been extended slightly to make the kitchen bigger by the previous owners and we can't do a loft conversion as the pitch of the roof isn't high enough, this would have been a reasonable compromise.

He does like my family.

For example I said to him about the fact that any celebrations/ entertaining are always done at his parents house (which is massive) and how I would like to host these things occasionally (christmas, birthday lunches for the DDs with grandparents etc) and again he comes out with - this isn't a reason to move.

I ended up crying and crying last night as he got really angry about it all and just said we have to wait.

I think I am going to broach it again in a few days and say we will wait two more months to see what the prognosis is for the current venture (he will have some very definite indications by then) and if all looks rosey then agree a timetable. If it isn't going to be a success, then we will make plans to move within our current means and restraints at that time as there will be nothing to wait for then.

[mumnotmachine]

I agree with those saying to move before they both start school- moving one is do-able, but getting two in maybe me very hard.

Could you extend the house at all? Even the smallest houses could usually have a loft conversion? And maybe a ground floor extension- that would at least give the space for a sofa bed if anyone needed to stay over?

[mumnotmachine]

Ah cross post!

[Ephiny]

I think you both have valid points. I don't think your reasons are ridiculous at all, it clearly would be ideal for you to have more space. But at the same time it's not essential, a 2 bed house is adequate for a family with two children. And moving is always expensive, and I can understand how he might be reluctant, or not want to commit to a particular 'timescale' especially if he doesn't have a steady/predictable income from his business.

I'm a bit surprised people think it's unreasonable to expect siblings to share a room 'indefinitely' though. This was totally normal when I was growing up (I got out of it by being the only girl, but my brothers shared until the older went off to university) which wasn't that long ago - have things changed so much?

[whoneedssleepanyway]

Christine - I think the way he looks at is, he is trying all these things to make things better for us as hopefully eventually one will be successful and then I won't have to take the financial strain.

Gorionine - agree it is not cramped like having 6 of us in there would be, but my point is I think it would be nice to have more space and we could afford it if we made a few compromises.

His issue is he doesn't want to spend the money if by waiting a little longer would mean we could get something better in a few years and would have wasted the money on an interim move...

[fedupofnamechanging]

I can understand him being nervous - a lot of jobs are at risk now, because of the economy and I can see that it makes sense not to take on more debt, just in case. Is he worried about your job security, given that he doesn't have a successful business?

I think that your reasons are 'nice to haves', rather than essentials, but you are not unreasonable to want to have them. I have 2 DS sharing a room - they are 9 and 11. They have bunk beds, to create more room for toys. Yes, it would be nicer if they had their own rooms, but it is fine as it is. Yes, it's nice to have people stay, but that is not a reason to take on more debt.

Having said all that, I think he is being selfish not to consider a change of area and a small increase in mortgage in order to give you the extra bedroom and the security of having sorted out schools.

I think I would be blunt and tell him that you have supported his dreams for 6 years and it's time he supported some of yours. I would agree a limit on how much I would increase the mortgage by (so maybe not as much as you want, but not as little as he wants). I'd also think about selling the house and renting in one of your preferred areas for 6 months, so he can see it's doable (although you risk interest rates going up). probably, I would give it the 2 months agreed and then just get the house on the market. It might take ages to sell.

So, neither of you is completely right or wrong, but at some point you have a right to what you want , given that he has had all this time of getting what he wants.

[ChristinedePizan]

Yes I do understand that but given this is attempt six ... Okay, why don't you wait the two months - it's not that long and will give you time to sort out the bits that he says aren't worth doing because you're not staying (that contradiction would really irritate me I have to say). And then if it is obvious that this venture isn't going anywhere, then you put wheels in motion. But I think you need to be very clear about what the cut off point is and agree that with him and put it in writing. So that there can be no back-peddling.

Otherwise I suspect you're going to be back here because he will be saying the results are less promising than he'd hoped for but better than they would be if it was a complete non-starter so let's wait another few months ...

[feckwit]

Have you looked into it practically? If he is self employed, would the bank lend you enough money to enable a move?

Would moving somewhere less central mean his business would not be supported so well? Have you factored in the additional costs to his business if he moves further from the client base?

By the way, we tend to move every couple of years and I've always managed to find schools for my 4. So it really is a postcode lottery.

[wannaBe]

sorry but I think that if you've been carrying him for the past six years then it's time to say enough is enough. If he hasn't found a suitable business venture in six years then tbh I think that it's fair to assume that he's really just not a businessman and is never going to make it work.

I think he needs to grow up and start taking some responsibility for his family and start playing a part here.

[whoneedssleepanyway]

I think that has to be the way to go Christine.

I think we almost need a list of pros and cons and weigh up all the waiting etc.

I genuinely don't think he has really appreciated the schooling point and is just over-simplifying it, I have spoken to a few people about this, one of whom is a primary head teacher and all say in an ideal world it is good if your children don't have to move school. I am going to reiterate this point to him.

I'll tell you what really annoyed me about our conversation though, when I got upset and was crying he said "you need to stop getting emotional about this, you need to stand back and just be practical" but I was like this is our home, of course I am going to be emotional about this...