AIBU to defriend this person, or should I stand up for what I believe, then defriend? WARNING..FACEBOOK AND IMMIGRANTS ISSUE.(145 Posts)
Ok, I know there are many people who don't use facebook for whatever reason, but that's not why I am here.
I believe people should stand up for what they believe in, even if it means they might lose friends over it.
I am being bamboozled by a discussion I am having with a friend over their views on FB. I think I am now out of my depth, because I am convinced that this friend has now got someone else to write her replies to what I am saying. (She has never ever written or spoken like this before, in fact in all the time I have known her, she has never been able to have an intelligent conversation).
Before you say 'defriend', I'd like to say that whilst I agree that she will indeed be defriended (obviously depending on whether I am badly wrong or not) I feel I should at least attempt to give my friend 'food for thought' as it were.
It doesn't feel right to me to just walk away from such hatred without at least trying to enlighten her, or maybe it's me who needs enlightening, I don't know.
I am not sure if anyone will want to help me, so I'll post the conversation if anyone would like to see it,and hopefully make some sense of it for me, so I can at least try to clear up a few myths and maybe get this girl to think about what I have said before I defriend.
Warning: The discussion is about immigrants and how much help they should receive from the govt, so if anyone more intelligent than me who understands about immigration can help me, I'd really appreciate it. I can't help thinking that if one person changes their minds about immigrants (and friend is quite young) then I will feel it has been worth having the discussion IYSWIM.
nosy interested although I'm probably not intelligent enough to help...
I don't understand. Are you taking about 'defriending' someone because you can't force them to have the same opinion as you?
I think there has been a post on EXACTLY this FB issue - scroll back over the past few pages of AIBU - it's been there this last week.
Why don't you talk to your friend face to face?
A lot of MN's carry a good amount of knowledge on immigration and I am sure they can help.
I commend your attitude OP.
My friend lives a very long way away from me, so can't talk face to face. She only has a mobile for keeping in touch and I can't afford to ring that so we communicate via facebook.
Smoggi Yes, I want her to change her attitude. If there's a small hope she will, I'd be delighted. Mainly because I think she is wrong.
Alas, she is now using huge words
to me in her messages and I don't really understand what she means. This has never ever happened before, in all the time I have known her, I've never known her to talk this way, so I can't say if IABU or not, because I don't understand the bloody conversation now.
My brain aches looking at it.
Shall I post it for you to see?
I feel really stupid for not understanding what she is saying tbh, but I am getting the impression that this is the idea, to confuse the hell out of me, then I'll give up and go away quietly out of embarrassment and I'll never have challenged her beliefs.
Anyway, I will post the conversation exactly as it happened.
Just to mention it started with the status which has been talked about on the other thread, but has continued on from there, so will post it all, and see if anyone can understand what she is saying to me bit by bit, sort of like translating IYGWIM
FRIEND'S STATUS: BRITISH OLD AGE PENSIONER TOTAL YEARLY BENEFIT £6.000.ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS / REFUGEES LIVING IN BRITAIN TOTAL YEARLY BENEFIT £29,900.The average pensioner has paid taxes and contributed to the growth of this country for the last 40 to 60 years.Sad isn't it.Got the guts to copy and paste this?I just did, it's an ABSOLUTE DISGRACE
My reply : dislike...where did you get this information from?
FRIEND : It's actually a chain going around, i'm not so sure if the numbers are accurate but I certainly agree that immigrants are better looked after than pensioners.
Simple: you cannot apply for benefits as an immigrant, illegal or not. She is misinformed.
My reply : What makes you say that? lol
My DH is an immigrant, has been here since age 7, and cannot apply for any benefits at all, and he pays a higher rate of tax. Legal immigrants' taxes support us (not that this is quite the point with illegal immigrants, I know).
FRIEND : A lot of them are given houses and other benefits, and a lot of elderly people have to choose between having the heating on for the night or having dinner that night
(At this point, I don't feel out of my depth too much btw )
My reply : I did actually write a long long reply, before I realised that it still hadn't said a tiny bit of what I wanted to say.
In short, I will not repost, not because I don't have the guts, but because this status is merely a way to fuel hatred of immigrants, and I don't have a problem with immigrants as a general rule.
I am interested though in what help you think immigrants who are pensionable age should get?
FRIEND : If someone has lived and worked here all of their lives and contributed to the country then they should definitely be looked after.
It's not so much immigrants as a rule, it's the rate of immigration that's the problem and the load they do p...lace on the financial system. Immigration is to be encouraged when it's beneficial to our economy and country, but in a time of recession when jobs are scarce, jobs should be taken by uk citizens and the financial resources available used to aid those who are unable (not unwilling) to find work. with the EU's nearly open borders hundreds of thousands of workers from growing economies are moving to this country to take advantage of our higher minimum wage and benevolent benefit system. this is just not acceptable while pensioners struggle financially.
immigration itself is not a problem, but the current immigration conditions are and is financially detracting from those who have lived and worked here all their life.
morally immigrants have no right immigrate here, it is a privilege, in the same way one would not expect to have a right to just move into Australia and start taking money from the pockets of the people living there. it can be dressed up as whatever you like, but that is essentially what immigrants that are not working are doing.
Your friend should know by now that we cannot say anything negative about immigrants etc
My reply : I am not sure about the first part of your post. Do you mean people should live and work here all their lives and contribute towards the country before they are eligible for financial support from the govt? Or do you mean they should either... live OR work OR contribute to the country and if that's what you mean, then for how long?
I don't see the link between the migrant workers coming to the UK and 'taking advantage of our higher minimum wage and benevolent benefit system' and pensioners struggling financially?
It is not that easy to come here as an immigrant and claim benefits and be given a social housing house either.
In this country, we treat all immigrants regardless of origin or profession as second class citizens and frankly, that's appalling.
If you believe that 'morally, immigrants have no right to immigrate here, it is a privelege' then can I ask which group of immigrants you are referring to?
Oh, sorry - thought you were posting the problem status update. If you don't mind me saying, if you post her replies one at a time in single posts, this will take ages! Can you post the whole conversation in one go, if it's not too long?
Okay this is a subject that pisses me right off.
Point one: There is no such thing as an 'illegal immigrant' for one thing; immigrants are legal, illegals are refugees/asylum seekers/overstayers/failed asylum seekers and 1001 other things.
Point two: Asylum seekers (to which I assume your ignorant friend is referring) get £35ish in food vouchers per week. They do not get cash. This is provided by a system call NASS and they fall under either section 4 or section 95 depending on how old their claim is. They will also be provided with a bed in shared accomodation.
Point three: Genuine illegals (asylum seekers are granted something called 'temporary admission' until their claim is processed so this excludes them) receive NOTHING from our government. Not a penny. If they work illegally that is another matter entirely, but for the purpose of your friend's post, they will receive no money from the tax payer.
Finally, if your friend would like to come and work in my office and hear a terrified 14 year old boy recount the tale of seeing his mother and sister raped and brutally murdered in front of him, whilst a Home Office official says they don't even believe this (clearly a child) young boy is even under 18 and should be returned immediately, and she/he can STILL post such utter fucking BULLSHIT with a straight face, then there is a clearly a special circle in hell reserved for such a person.
Yes, a lot of people come over here chancing their luck (but they don't receive money once their claim is exhausted), but we cannot turn our backs on those that genuinely need our help.
FRIEND : Unfortunately this is not a modular problem in the manner you are representing it.
The problem boils down to the distribution of wealth. There is a certain amount of wealth available (tax payers money) and it must be redistributed for the be...tterment of the tax payers. Someone who has contributed to the country's financial pot all their lives has far more right to financial support than someone who has never contributed and is not working. There is only a certain amount of money available and the current distribution is quite simply grossly unfair.
In an ideal world there would be enough money for everyone to have a 5 star quality of life, but that doesn't work because A) there isn't enough money and B) equality leads to stagnation. If you can't improve your lot over your fellow man, why bother trying? The economy then grinds to a halt and there's even less money.
I'm referring to all immigrants.
If someone conducts themselves as a second class citizen they SHOULD be treated as such. If that entails entering the country and sitting around picking your arse rather than working then quite frankly they deserve nothing. That's not to say however that someone who is of benefit to the country and seeking work should not be entitled to some support while searching for work.
Tax payers money is to benefit the taxpayers. An immigrant getting a free ride off the backs of the hard working is NOT a benefit.
To summarize, those who will not work deserve NO quarter. And those who are detracting from the working lives of people who were born here do not deserve much better.
Those who fit both these categories and are getting a better ride than someone who has worked hard here all there lives... truly sickening.
Sorry, that is as far as it has got, but I am completely lost now. I don't understand most of it. Can anyone translate please?
As I understand it, she's saying that immigrants shouldn't get money because there isn't enough going around, and that only people who contribute financially deserve money.
She is wrong. Immigrants do not get benefits. I have no idea why this is such a prevalent belief, but they don't. Just tell her that - she's very ignorant.
Reply: If you don't know if the information is accurate, how can you be sure that the reverse isn't true?
Reply 2: According to the DWP the Basic State Pension for 2011 is £5,311.80. Job Seekers Allowance for 2011 is £3510. Please may I come and live on your planet where the latter is of more value than the former?
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