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Just out of interest, how much are parents to blame.......

(25 Posts)
Filibear Fri 15-Jul-11 11:34:37

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Filibear Fri 15-Jul-11 11:34:59

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brownleatherbrogues Fri 15-Jul-11 11:35:56

depends on the situation

some kids from the moment they are born have no chance in life

HowToLookGoodGlaikit Fri 15-Jul-11 11:36:32

Im not sure Cindy can be blamed for Casey being a sociopath.

Filibear Fri 15-Jul-11 11:39:38

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sausagesandmarmelade Fri 15-Jul-11 11:39:54

I don't know about the case you are referring to...BUT I do think that sometimes the parents have an impact on how their child behaves...i.e. if they are bad examples...but having said that I know of good parents who have done the best they can to bring their children up properly and to set a good example...whose kids have ended up on the wrong side of the law.

knittedbreast Fri 15-Jul-11 11:41:36

i think we seriously underestimate the affect school and peers have on childrens behaviour. parents are too often used as scapegoats.

its a hard time to be a child, there is almost nothing children cant do these days (paragliding aged 4 etc) but then we baby them more. the grown up experiences our children are getting used to are the wrong ones because we dont let them grow up the right way.

ie children today dont climb trees but they do wear bikinis

Tangle Fri 15-Jul-11 11:42:53

Doesn't that come down to Nature vs. Nurture - which is a debate that's been running for years and doesn't look set to be concluded any time soon.

I don't know enough about the case in question to comment on that specifically, but I do think that parents can be easy targets in these situations, when there are a whole raft of other influences that may bear partial responsibility (school as an environment, teachers in specific, group leaders from Scouts/football/ballet/etc, friends, friends' parents, TV...) They will all have an influence on how a child grows up and what behaviour they consider to be "normal" and "acceptable".

MrsFizzywig Fri 15-Jul-11 11:43:08

Its 99% nature and 1% nurture IMO. Thats because I've got twins who have obviously had the same upbringing but are quite different.
As kids get older, especially teens, they start to have more outside influences and obviously (and rightly) start making their own decisions and having their own opinions about things. On the whole, I don't think parents can be held responsible for kids bad behaviour unless they are really bad or neglectful parents and even then kids raised by bad parents don't necessarily turn out bad themselves.

cookcleanerchaufferetc Fri 15-Jul-11 11:50:14

I think that parenting has a lot to account for in the "character" of a person. For example, if a child has no discipline from day one, that child is far more likley to grow up challenging the boundaries and going to on do poorly at school, getting into all sorts of trouble and so on. This is of course a generalisation and I am not saying every child without discipline will grow up and live in prison! If a child is allowed to eat crap for breakfast, lunch and dinner (talking bisuits for breakfast, junk permanently etc!) all the time then typically they would be more likley to be overweight, depressed etc. Of course their are kids who are bought up on organic foods, have qaulity time spent with parents and siblings, with Mum on PTA etc who end up in prison!

Kids can be different but it is installing morals, principles and values that has an impact.

I would go as far to say that parenting courses should be mandatory! if you saw some of the parents at my school, you would see why!

knittedbreast Fri 15-Jul-11 11:50:18

mrsfizzywig, forgive me i hope this dousnt come out the wrong way. but a set of twins will have very differnt experiences growing up. you might have always given them the same things (that in itself an issue?) but you will have given one of them the thing first, that in itself will have an effect.

I dont mean it in a nsaty way, i hope you get me smile

knittedbreast Fri 15-Jul-11 11:52:50

can i ask what it is about the mothers you dont agree with?

there is so much in the media about awful parents who give their kids those drinks in plastic bottles everyone on here hates (i forget the name).
but these drinks and other sweets are sold, why not remove them in the first place?

sausagesandmarmelade Fri 15-Jul-11 11:53:53

Very good point re the other influencing factors (peers, schooling, teachers, environment etc).

In the end...a child/adult has to account for (be responsible for) behaviour...

cookcleanerchaufferetc Fri 15-Jul-11 12:35:23

knitted - are you asking me about fruit shoots etc? I dont think it is awful to give them that kind of stuff, and my kids have them. However, if your child was to have a fruit shoot and penguin for breakfast, processed junk for lunch, shit for dinner, with nothing offering any nutritional value at all, then that would have an impact on the child's behaviour and what they see as the norm.

Kids should have "crap" occassionally, but to give your kid a greggs 5% meat sausage every single day is wrong IMO.

Everything in moderation ....

knittedbreast Fri 15-Jul-11 12:38:29

fruitshoots thats it.

i agree ccc, everything in moderation. i was asking what it is about the other mothers at the school that would require parenting classes

cookcleanerchaufferetc Fri 15-Jul-11 12:50:51

Knitted - parents would benefit from basic parenting skills so they could teach them what is acceptable and what is not. For example:

- mums who let their kids hit/bite/smack/pull hair at toddler groups repeatedly
- mums who let their kids take pens from a shop and draw all over the shop in front of them (kid was about 8)
- mums who let their kids stay home alone - at 5 years of age
- mums who "discipline" their kids by saying "shut the fuck up you little shit" and smacking them round the head
- mums who cant be bothered to have any interest in their kids doing homework or even going to school
- mums who thinks that their little johnny would never do x, y or z, even when there are a dozen witnesses

That kind of thing!

I said Mums and got to go out so it is quicker than writing parents, but explaining has taken longer!

These are extremes, and there are many examples that I am too nappy brained to remember at the drop of the hat.

MsTeak Fri 15-Jul-11 12:57:38

Why the need for "blame" anyway? If you're looking for reasons why people act the way they do in order to learn and prevent, fine, but I don't see why you feel the need to blame anyone.

There really isn't much of a nature vs nurture debate anymore, since its long been accepted that its a complicated combination of the two.

scottishmummy Fri 15-Jul-11 13:11:42

million dollar question,its nature nurture and physiology
so much in mix with troubled individuals hard to extrapolate one defining feature

Tangle Fri 15-Jul-11 13:14:51

"There really isn't much of a nature vs nurture debate anymore, since its long been accepted that its a complicated combination of the two."

true - but I'm sure I saw it in the news in the last few weeks that a new study was suggesting that the balance was completely different than previous analysis had suggested. I don't think its going to go away, although it may become more academic.

MsTeak Fri 15-Jul-11 13:17:34

yes I should have said that the debate is all about the type and balance. Heritability and the mudpie vs bucket theory and all that jazz!

scottishmummy Fri 15-Jul-11 13:18:52

of course its all factor social,physiological,psychological.cant seperate into nature or nurture its both.

Miggsie Fri 15-Jul-11 13:23:19

There was a study done some time ago with chimps and it was observed that several of the baby chimps were very agressive, and they also observed that those agressive chimps with very nurturing mothers calmed down a bit and managed to integrate into the wider chimp group as they grew older whereas the agressive chimps without very nurturing mothers carried on being agressive. They thus concluded that innate agressive can be tempered by parental influence but not removed completely.

So I suppose this shows both nature and nuture play a part.

My MIL had 4 kids and although she would claim she brought them all up the same, she certainly had a "favourite" whom she spoiled and who has been the "black sheep of the family" because he never has to take responsiblity for himself as she always bails him out. But, he also has agressive anti-social traits which appear inborn, so I think both nature and nurture play a part, it cannot always be the parents, and certainly if your child is born a physcopath there is nothing really you can do, it is the way their brain is wired.

Kewcumber Fri 15-Jul-11 13:33:10

having a child who was adopted brings with it a particular interest in the nature vs nurture debate (though I can;t beleive anyone these days beleives its truly one or the other).

I have seen children who are horrendously impacted by terrible paretning skills of their birth parents and am convinced that they would have had very differnt outcomes if they had been adequately paretned form day 1.

On teh other hand I see that my son has a personality that I am convinced is 100% "him" and that he would have the same personality whomever he had grown up with.

I have become convinced that your personality is mostly genetic with some influence from events that happen in early life and that a parents role is to learn what personality your child has and to help them maximise the positives and deal with the negatives.

Good parenting can take a challenging personailty, tap into the pasion and produce an engaged and gifted child, poor paretning can take the most stable of personalities and produce a mass of neuroses!

As others have said really. Sometimes you can "blame" the paretns sometiems not but there no magic formula (sadly) for either identifying what might be inappropriate paretning (except in the most extreme cases) or knowing whether your stylr of parenting works best for your child.

Most of us try different approaches if the one we are using isn;t wrking which in my book probably is classified under "good enough" parenting!

ragged Fri 15-Jul-11 13:39:40

I think it's unproductive to even ask the question; that the influence of any factor is individual & variable, because of the way genes are expressed or not expressed at seemingly random, and how they interact with the environment as well; ie: some kids are more influenced by their parents (or by their other environment) than others.

MrsFizzywig Fri 15-Jul-11 14:38:55

Knitted I know that it is a huge generalisation to say that twins are 'brought up the same' because, however similarly they are treated, their perceptions and experiences of their upbringing are always going to be different.
However, I still do believe that nature plays a larger role in a person's personality and behaviour than nurture and I don't think that parents should be blamed for their offspring's behaviour, except perhaps when the child is very young and knows no better.
Sooner or later people have to take responsibility for their own actions.

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