Why do people with so many problems still go on to have so many kids?

[sundayrose10]

Often there is a thread on here regarding severe hardship on relationship, crowded unfit home, NO money, kids playing up...and the op will mention she is pregnant with the 3rd, 4th, 5th and so on.

Having more kids on top of major problems = hell

There may not be a right time to have children but there is definitely a better time. And if there is no better time, accept that you don't have to have more kids and be happy with the ones you have. Life is unfair but it's especially unfair to bring more kids into very complicated set ups.

It's a trend I see even in real life. Madness.

[Kallista]

I think that YANBU.

[moonferret]

Of course the welfare state rewards people for having more and more children. I'm not saying that this is the sole reason by any means, but it's certainly a "motivator" for a very large number of births.

[Bogeyface]

Its difficult though.

When I was PG life went from if not perfect, then pretty good, to hell.

When we decided to get pg I was fit and healthy, we were financially fine and everything was good. Just after my first scan (around christmas) our income fell by a third through no fault of ours, we had to use our savings to replace some white goods that packed in and get my car fixed, except that despite spending almost £1000 it still wasnt fixed and we couldnt afford any more money so that was off the road, my son had to have an operation and I became immobile, in alot of pain and pretty much useless as i couldnt leave the house without the car. DH was on the brink of redundancy, my father lost his sight aswell as his hearing so needed our help and basically I wondered who the hell was up there shitting on us.

However, if you didnt know what had happened you could read my posts and thing "why the fuck is she having another baby?", because I wouldnt necc post the back story, just moan about being skint, in pain etc. We couldnt have predicted what would happen and thankfully now .... well I dont want to jinx it, but things are better than they were

But that said, if things had been like that pre-pg then we wouldnt have got pg and I dont understand people who are having bad time getting pg deliberately (discounting accidents). So regarding the people that do do that, YANBU!

[BitOfFun]

I think that many people get very sentimental about baybees, and see it all as fate, rather than a fuck-up in contraception that in our country at least, can be rectified, albeit with inconvenience and pain.

This is not helped by romantic posts along the lines of 'you never regret a baby', or 'it's obviously meant to be'.

I wish people could generally be a bit more pragmatic. Not because I am some sort of anti-benefit proto-fascist, but because I think that bringing another life into the world is a very big decision, and should be made with your head at least as much as your heart.

[Morloth]

I have never understood 'You never regret a baby', I know people who have done so, and it is very very sad for everyone involved.

I have a friend who never wanted a third and accidentally got pregnant, she didn't feel like she could have an abortion, she didn't feel like she could give the baby up for adoption (happily married, big house, two kids) her husband had had a vasectomy and it was just really unfortunate, her kids were older, she was working full time in a job she loved etc. She just doesn't really love her third child the way she did with her first two, she wants to with all her heart and she puts on a hell of a show for him, but she didn't want him, his birth threw their lives for 6 and not in a good way. She knows it isn't his fault and does her best and I don't think he knows how she feels. But she regrets him.

Personally, I try to not to judge too much, people fuck up, people make the wrong decisions, life goes pear shaped without any warning etc. I don't get it right 100% of the time.

I do wonder what people are thinking when they decide to introduce another person into an already complicated situation, but then I remember the almost physical need I had when I wanted to have a baby. I kind of feel that way now about a third but my head is going to over rule my heart I think.

Life and people are complicated, they make all sorts of decisions that perhaps I wouldn't make.

[INeedALieIn]

Completely agree.

[itisnearlysummer]

Some people with lots of problems don't go on to have "so many kids" deliberately, as in it isn't a decision they make.

If their lives are chaotic and they are struggling for other reasons in other ways then maybe contraception isn't going to be high on their list of priorities either.

Therefore, it's not so much that people are choosing to have lots of children, more that they are experiencing the consequences of repeatedly having unprotected sex.

[Georgimama]

I have the relationships topic hidden for this very reason. I agree with you entirely but expect we will get a pasting shortly.

[CoteDAzur]

That sounds like choosing to have a baby to me.

[Goblinchild]

'I have the relationships topic hidden for this very reason.'

Me too. I appreciate that for many it is a source of strength and support, but for me it's too much like car crash TV. In the same way that i don't watch JK and all the other relationship-based reality shows.
I just want to yell 'WTF are you doing and why?'
Which isn't helpful for anyone, including me.

[Georgimama]

When my life was chaotic, for various reasons, contraception was one of the very highest things on my list of priorities; I was full aware that a child in the mix would tip me right over the edge and made damned sure I didn't get pregnant. Yes, some babies are due to contraception failures, but an awful lot of people express surprise when they find themselves pregnant after not using contraception at all. It shouldn't be surprising.

[ajandjjmum]

What's really sad is that it's a cycle that just keeps getting repeated.

[feckwit]

I think the amount of people who actually have more children to gain more benefits are few and far between. There seems to be an assumption on here that more babies = bigger house, high levels of housing benefits etc. In all my years working in social care, I can honestly say I see very few people who benefit from being ON benefits.

It does all boil down now to whether we think the rich should only have children and what equates to a good standard of living. Some people might say we should not have had 4 children as my dh is not highly paid and nor am I. We probably don't provide them with what some would see as important - but we provide them with everything that WE believe is important. So there is never going to be a right or wrong answer to our systems.

But until more employers offer family friendly working solutions and childcare is mote affordable, I cannot see this changing.

[Georgimama]

But this isn't really about happy stable families like yours who make an active choice to be happy without certain material comforts feckwit - I think what the OP is referring to is fucked up domestic situations where people keep having more children despite the fact they are barely coping with the emotional and physical needs of themselves and the ones they already have.

[Goblinchild]

OP didn't mention benefits.

[itisnearlysummer]

Yes, I think Georgimama is right, which is what I meant about people not deciding to have children, but rather experiencing the consequences of unprotected sex.

Also, Georgimama, when your life was chaotic you clearly had your eye on the ball.

Years working in CP and seeing people who had had up to 14 children removed from their care suggests that some people aren't making those choices!

It's amazing how many people with children on the CP register had 5+ children.

WRT benefits, people may not have more children to get the benefits, there is no deterrent. Plenty of people I know have chosen to not have (more) children because they can't afford to on their salaries. At least if you're on benefits you know you will get more.

[MadEyeMoodTEE2072]

Also why I don't read relationship topic! A second reason being that so many people don't want advice on how to make their lives better they just want a moan and I can't keep my mouth shut!

[Geordieminx]

I've just been down to my parents for a few days. The amount of girls I saw that knew from school with 3/4/5 kids trailing behind them is so sad.

One girl, 24? 3 kids, another on the way, wandering around with her dressing gown on and a ciggy in her mouth. She literally has nowt, bar the pittance she gets in benefits. She left school at 14 after being suspended more times than she was there, with no qualifications. I honestly don't think there is ever a chance of her getting a job, so she just keeps on having kids.

The sad thing is she looks totally and utterly miserable, whether she wants more from life or not, you can tell she isn't happy with the way things have worked out.

[InsomniaQueen]

This kind of thing aggravates me beyond belief - on a personal note my parents had 5 children - they never expected the state to support them they expected their 5 children to start work and start providing for the family!!! As a result contraception was my highest priority - I have 2 degrees which I paid for and have the huge debts to prove it!!! My DH and I have been married a year and I only stopped taking my pill in January because I knew that even if we got pg straight away we would have enough time to clear all debts and put a decent amount of money aside. It makes me want to scream when I hear people complaining about how hard their life.....if things were bad pre-pg then they aren't usually going to improve once you add another mouth to feed into the equation!!

It certainly makes me wonder what the hell people are thinking of out there - if your in a crap situation you should be thinking about fixing that situation first and then worrying about bringing more lives into the world. It sooo hard because unfortunately it's usually the children in these situations that do nothing, go nowhere and don't seem to make anything useful of themselves. But when you look at their environment it really isn't surprising and the phrase "never stood a chance" comes to mind!!!!

[Goblinchild]

Just a thought. Some of the most messed-up children I've had to deal with have come from high income, materially wealthy and well-educated families who have the most fucked up and chaotic home lives.
Some of the most emotionally stable and loved children have come from economically deprived backgrounds with numerous children.
It's not really about the cash, it's about the healthiness of the relationships between family members.

[InsomniaQueen]

Goblin - totally agree with you - didn't make myself clear possibly! When I said crap situation I include lack of money, no permanent place to live, poor relationships, domestic abuse ect.

Having money wont make you a better parent - actually looking after your children makes you a good parent!!! Buying them lots of stuff (as BIL & SIL do)doesn't automatically mean your children will grow up to be well behaved and polite (which their children certainly aren't).

My parents only argued over one thing - money- nothing else was a problem. We got on (not so much now) but to all intents and purposes all 5 of us have done well for ourselves and lead positive lives. Without positive role models it's hard to see where the line between appropriate and not appropriate is. Seeing parents swearing at their children is a prime example of this - they stand in a shopping centre calling their child all names under the sun and then when said child grows older and starts coming and going as they please they complain about them not having any respect.....boggles the mind!!!

[sheepgomeep]

Geordiemix I know a girl exactly like that except she's 26 and pregnant with her fifth. She left school with nothing and pregnant, has never worked and never will. She has numerous health problems from being pg all the time and is just an incubator. This baby will not be her last. Its very sad

[potterschmotter]

god i hate these judgey judgey threads.

walk a mile in their shoes first, or help them via surestart or something.

[BimboNo5]

YANBU
Drives me insane, people just act like a baby just 'happens' through no consequence of their own actions. Some people just love to keep banging the babies out in dire situations and it makes me very but if you ask why they are having another you get pasted.

[misdee]

we live in an overcroded home (7 of us in a 3beed house)

dh has serious health issues

i suffer mental health issues.

dh works, i am on 'leave' and setting up business soon.

i would love to have more children. but although we are overcroded we manage with good storage, bed arrnagemtns etc.

i wont have more atm, as not sure my mind could take another nosedive so soon after the last crash.

my children dont have all the latest gadget they want, they dont have their own space and have to share things at time.

but they are loved. and always will be.

my last two babies are miracles in their own right, as technically dh shouldnt be here, therefor they wouldnt be here.