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Babies behind bars (sensitive).

(25 Posts)
altinkum Thu 07-Jul-11 21:43:42

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

worraliberty Thu 07-Jul-11 21:46:27

Watched a tiny bit the other week and found it really depressing.

A 42 year old woman was refused a place on the maternity wing because she got in a fight when she was 10 years old sad

Due to that, she was apparently 'violent' so had to give her baby up while she was inside.

youarekidding Thu 07-Jul-11 21:46:28

I have been watching it.

I am still on the fence with what I think about it.

It seems to work though from what the programme shows. I would be interested to see a follow up in 3 years time and then further follow ups.

altinkum Thu 07-Jul-11 21:53:13

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

iMemoo Thu 07-Jul-11 22:02:00

I absolutely agree that the baby should stay with it'sother unless there are very good reasons why it shouldn't.

ohhappyday Thu 07-Jul-11 22:31:10

I found that programme really distressing - imagine not knowing when your c section will be - only getting 4 hours notice then having no birth partner. Can't imagine how the majority of these women feel having to surrender their babies after 24 hours

HeadfirstForHalos Thu 07-Jul-11 22:47:36

I think a young baby would benefit more from being with their mother in prison than with a foster family on the outside. A mother can meet a baby's most important needs while in prison and that bonding time is so important. As they get older obviously the lines start to blur as the child's needs change.

In the right situation I do think they should stay with their mum.

LolaRennt Thu 07-Jul-11 22:59:10

Assuming the mother is mentally sound enough to take after a child and isnt in jail for violent crimes she should be in charge of her baby

LolaRennt Thu 07-Jul-11 23:01:38

Actually I can't imagine a better way to get a person back on the right track then letting them see what they are working for and toward.

HelloKlitty Thu 07-Jul-11 23:02:18

Did you know that the Mothers Union take babies out of Holloway for walks? sad So they can visit the park and look at anoter environment.

KaraJS Thu 07-Jul-11 23:04:38

I think it's a shame they only have 10 places , I do think because places are limited they should go to the first time mothers, some of them mums have 6 children and haven't stopped reoffending yet, what's to say they won't be back in a years time

youarekidding Thu 07-Jul-11 23:07:24

lola excellent post.

Thistledew Thu 07-Jul-11 23:07:27

Doesn't it depend on how long the mother's sentence is? There must come an age when it becomes unfair to the child to be incarcerated. Surely it would be worse for the child to bond with the mother for 18 months, or however long, and then be separated from her? Better that they are separated before the child forms a bond that will have to be broken.

This is one of those sad situations where there are no right answers, and it is not fair on the child to be turned into a get out of jail card, as no doubt many children would be conceived just for that purpose.

KaraJS Thu 07-Jul-11 23:22:34

I think they are in for short sentences, some of them are there a few months then move to open prisons

giraffesCantZumba Fri 08-Jul-11 00:07:47

you only get a place if you have a limited time (think eighteen months) left to serve. Any more than that and no place. I can see logic of it working. Some featured in programme seemed in a cycle of preg and offending so not for them.

AuntiePickleBottom Fri 08-Jul-11 00:12:16

i think these places should only go to 1st time mums, to me the ones with kids didn't think of what will happen to there current children when they was out commiting the crimes, so why would they chance because they have another baby

scarlettsmummy2 Fri 08-Jul-11 00:18:25

I am a foster carer and before doing this I would also agree with a lot of the comments, however I know disagree having done quite a bit of training on attachment. If a child is in all likelihood going to end up in the care system it is better the sooner it happens. If you get the first five years of a child's life wrong it is very hard to fix the damage done. In an ideal world these mothers will change, however often their lives are just so chaotic this isn't possible. They might manage for a short period of time, but often things fall apart again, hence why so many kids end up going through countless foster placements while mum tries to get her life back together. This might seem harsh but surely the child's needs must come first.

KaraJS Fri 08-Jul-11 01:10:02

That's why I think only the first time mums, helps them learn how to parent, extra support etc etc maybe this will help break the cycle for them, a lot of the women already have quite a few children, some adopted some in foster care, as harsh as it sounds they've had plenty of chances to think of their children and to stop offending, give the places to someone who it might really make a difference to

altinkum Fri 08-Jul-11 07:42:12

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

KaraJS Fri 08-Jul-11 08:00:23

I thought the women who attacked her partner with the knife was pg with her 1 st child, that's what it said the first time they showed her before she had the baby

altinkum Fri 08-Jul-11 08:03:51

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

jester68 Fri 08-Jul-11 08:23:30

I think it can be good in some cases when the mother will be released with her baby after serving her sentence. But if it means the baby is with her for say 12-18 months then has to be given to family members or foster care then that is wrong. That child would have bonded with its mother only to be seperated from her in the end anyway.

Earwiggy Fri 08-Jul-11 13:35:58

This is an american program isn't it? Anyone know what actually happens in uk prisons, I imagine we let more babies stay with their mothers ut don't know for sure.

I think they should all stay with alot of resouces for teaching good parenting and supervising so that babies are removed if the parent doesn't meet basic levels of care. These babies could be in a much better situation that some born outside prison.

altinkum Fri 08-Jul-11 13:49:56

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

tillyfernackerpants Fri 08-Jul-11 14:47:06

I wrote an essay about this recently, its very interesting to read about. There are 7 mother & baby units in the UK in total (Styal, Holloway, New Hall, Peterborough, Bronzefield, Eastwood Park, Askham Grange). In two of them, mums can keep their babies with them up to 9 months old and in the other five up to 18 months. But they have to apply to a Board for a place, its not guaranteed, and the application is focused on what's best for the child.

There are programmes in Styal and Holloway which provide antenatal education and a doula service as well as postnatal help but it can all be a bit hit and miss, depending on if the women want to attend, if they even find out about it etc.

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