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to think that the Pro-life Alliance's request for abortion figures using the freedom of information act...

(32 Posts)
DuelingFanjo Mon 04-Jul-11 19:50:00

... has actually shown that very few late abortions happen in this country (147 in 2010) and that the fact that there were ony 7 abortions carried out for Cleft lip and palate just shows that the constant barrage of posts about how often this kind of termination is carried out have been misguided and incorrect? Though I do understand that some people would think 7 is 7 too many.

story here I did a search and can't see a discussion about this which is a surprise. Maybe I am not searching hard enough?

I can't even comment properly, it makes me too angry.

They have no right to these statistics.

I was hit by a fucking lorry and went into premature labour at 22 weeks. Three days of trying to stop the labour were all for nothing when they realised I had an infected placenta and all of a sudden the smug cow of a doctor was racing to get the baby out, all the time banging on about filling in the late termination paperwork.

To anyone with half a brain or an ounce of compassion there is no way my loved and wanted daughter's birth was a termination but to bastards like the Pro-Life Alliance she is just a statistic they can twist for propaganda and I'm the bitch that waited to long to kill her.

I'm pro-choice all the way but when that doctor told me that in the eyes of the law my baby's birth was a termination I told them to stick their intervention and let us die together. I thought termination would go on her death certificate as the reason she had died!

Smug cow doctor said she could have me sectioned and intervene anyway and it would be better for everyone to go along with it willingly.

My daughter would have been born regardless, the things they were doing to try and stop the labour progressing were not working and in some instances they made things worse. It was just that things were not progressing quickly enough.

My daughter and I are only one statistic to them but to me it was the worst experience of my life. Also, that statistic is part of my medical records and they have no right to have them to use for their hate campaign without my permission. And I haven't given it.

I know it's a contradiction because scum like that have no right to knowing my name, my baby's name or our story. But without those names or those story then we are nothing to them, they have no idea how hard it was or what we went through. They can make up whatever story they like and I can guarentee it won't be anything like the pain and heartache of the real one.

I lost my son to stillbirth and my daughter to prematurity. But to them, I gave her up to abortion to suit my own selfish self.

But through those losses I have met other women who have 'decided' to terminate because things were badly, badly wrong with their babies and they made the most unselfish decision of all. They 'chose' late terminations because often the problems can't be diagnosed properly earlier, or the severity of them can't be diagnosed properly earlier and they were clinging on with hope that was dashed.

They can paint the people to be selfish all they like but those decisions are agonising and they leave a grieving mother without a much wanted baby because that mother wanted to spare her baby any further pain and suffering. The mothers I know who made this choice did so because doctors told them their babies were suffering or would suffer through the birth and die anyway, or would die before their due dates and be stillborn. And it's not even right to call it a choice because when you have such a devestating diagnosis for your baby all choice is taken away. You just want to do the only thing you can do as it's mother. Stop the pain or the suffering or the struggle and let your baby go in peace.

It's hard enough, every single day grieving and wondering, without people like the Pro-Life Allience pulling stunts like this to rub salt into the wounds. If they cared about life they would be working hard to find out why we have so many stillbirths in this country and finding a way to stop it, or working for babies in the third world to stop the infant mortality rate from being so high out there.

They are utter, shitty scum, the lot of them. Sorry for mistakes. Crying.

Thanks fr posting tho dueling, you are right.

OnlyWantsOne Mon 04-Jul-11 20:22:51

I just want to say takethisonehereforastart that your story, and your little girl have made me cry - how fucking awfully hard this must be sad I hope youre getting lots of love and support in RL.

and I agree, those stats shouldnt be released.

Fernier Mon 04-Jul-11 20:23:38

so sorry about your daughter sad
I thought this new article very strange I dont see the point, most people I know who dont agree with abortions for many reasons agree they are right in SOME circumstances so I cant see what the paper is trying to gain by this "journalism" other than to upset people.

DogsBestFriend Mon 04-Jul-11 20:26:00

Oh takethis, I'm so, so sorry.

I was going to argue that of course the Alliance have a right to the stats, despite being pro-choice myself.

Then I read the rest of your post and I understood. Your story's an education to me and one I wish you weren't able to teach me, which had never happened to you or any other woman.

Clearly, DF, YANBU.

DawnTiggaFashionGoddess Mon 04-Jul-11 20:26:52

takethisonehereforastart you have my heart felt sympathy.

ib Mon 04-Jul-11 20:27:10

so sorry for your loss takethis.

I too know women who lost much wanted babies and would be counted among those 147.

I suspect if those were not included, the numbers would be truly very low indeed.

I hate the way these people have hijacked the term pro-life. I'd rather call them anti-choice myself, as that is what they actually are.

smallwhitecat Mon 04-Jul-11 20:28:59

Message withdrawn

sittinghippo Mon 04-Jul-11 20:29:50

Oh takethisone how awful. An eye-opening post to me that was. It all sounds so different to hear it from the flip side. sad

meditrina Mon 04-Jul-11 20:31:08

Takethis: I am so sorry about what you went through.

If it is any small consolation, they won't have any information about you whatsoever as the timelines are wrong.

The linked article is about terminations after 24 weeks. Also they won't have patient identification information.

DuelingFanjo Mon 04-Jul-11 20:31:50

I am so sorry takethisonehereforastart sad

catgirl1976 Mon 04-Jul-11 20:34:20

So sorry takethis - big hug to you

Thanks everyone for understanding.

Statistics are only numbers until you know the story behind each one, that's why I told ours. And I can guarentee that of those 147 quoted, most if not all have a story like ours too.

Most people get that but the people in that article, the Pro-Life Allience people, really don't get it at all.

Catitainahatita Mon 04-Jul-11 20:34:45

I wasn't going to comment on this thread as I was worn out by last weeks abortion thread. But then I read takethisonehereforastart's story and it made me want to cry.
I am so sorry for your loss, takethis. I hope you have all the support you need to come to terms with such a devasting experience.

bubbleymummy Mon 04-Jul-11 20:38:21

Sorry for your lOSS

bubbleymummy Mon 04-Jul-11 20:39:26

Sorry for your loss takethisone. sad

bubbleymummy Mon 04-Jul-11 20:40:20

Is 'late' abortion not after 24 weeks?

floweryblue Mon 04-Jul-11 20:43:16

I am horrified by your story takethisone, it seems clear to me that you did not have a termination but you did endure a medical procedure which led to the death of your baby. How anyone could class it as a termination is beyond my comprehension.

I remember the first time people heard that babies were aborted for clefts, and so many people were up in arms.

However, statistics are just bare facts, with no emotion.

A person aborting for 'just' a cleft either has a baby with a very severe cleft and perhaps and associated syndrome, yet the form only allows one box to be ticked; or someone has been so scared and ill informed by medics who show know better that they thought a standard cleft is worst than it is.

While some people may choose early abortion as a form of contraception, which I don't approve of, or for 'lifestyle reasons' which I will not judge because I don't know their circsm, those poor women being forced to choose a medical abortion because of difficulties must go through agonies trying to decide what is right.

My heart goes out to each and every one of them.

LittleMissFlustered Mon 04-Jul-11 20:55:45

I read this piece of scaremongering 'news' earlier and stunned my cats with the inventiveness of my under-breath swearing. This sort of data has no place being shared. It serves no purpose than to add vitriol to an already incendiary argument. The choices a woman makes with her doctor in this way ought in no way be used as ammunition.

I feel for each of those 147 women and their families, they must feel like targets sad

pointythings Mon 04-Jul-11 20:58:17

I work in IT and I know how easy it is to identify someone from the smallest piece of data.

What if one of those 147 women ends up being verbally abused, threatened, stalked or even killed by some nutjob, all because of the so-called Pro-Life Alliance? They should hang their heads in shame.

JenaiMarrHePlaysGuitar Mon 04-Jul-11 21:45:03

Good Lord.

I've long dislike them and their ilk, but the "pro-life" Alliance really are quite astonishingly vile, aren't they. sad

fgaaagh Mon 04-Jul-11 21:50:08

takethisonehereforastart I'm so sorry for your loss.

You're right - these people don't see the stories and women, and families, behind their statistics. They spread hatred and misinformation and statistics without context or background or any fucking care for the real people behind each and every individual circumstance.

I'm so sorry that you are exposed to this sort of vile stuff in the papers, media - they're too quick to take a black and white view of many issues. Unfortunately, it's not unique to this particular issue (pro-life vs. pro-choice, whatver).

happy2bhomely Mon 04-Jul-11 21:59:15

I don't know what I'm trying to say by sharing this but I think it is relevant......

My Sis in law had a late termination beginning of 2010, so she was one of those 147. She was 16 yrs old and 26 weeks pregnant. She knew from 12 weeks. She was healthy, her baby was healthy. It was a boy, she was told. She told the doctor she didn't want the baby because she had decided she was too young-the doctor simply said 'not a problem'. Her Mother accompanied her while the procedure was carried out, but she gave birth to that 'baby' alone with no offer of pain relief other than paracetamol. They have not spoken about it since.

She has since given birth to a healthy baby, aged 17. I am pro-choice, but I cried for that 'baby'. It was a baby, wasn't it? I don't know, but I know I sobbed (in private) while she seemed completely unmoved. I cried for my sis-in-law because she was so poorly informed. She had no idea until she was expecting the 2nd baby, just what it was that she did. She didn't realise that what she felt were 'baby kicks'. I'm angry that a girl growing up today could be so ignorant and I'm angry that she got such little support from her Mother and from health professionals.

I am pro choice, and I try not to judge, but after facing this situation in my own family I am beginning to question my own beliefs. Maybe she was the only one out of all those women who did it for those reasons, but what if she wasn't?

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