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to think that there is a place for CAPITAL PUNISHMENT in a civilised society?

(137 Posts)
HoHumm Fri 01-Jul-11 22:56:42

Whenever any of us plebs (politicians would never debate it as they would be too scared to) call for a return of the death penalty, there are cries of 'not acceptable in a civilised country', 'that would make us as bad as the murderer', 'rehabilitating them makes us a more caring society' ad nauseum!

Well I think that is bollocks. Humanely (which is more they afforded their victims) putting a so called human down to rid society of a danger to all, cannot be compared to a sick twisted individual torturing someone for kicks who has done nothing wrong other than being in the wrong place at the wrong time in many cases. That is not revenge, it's just pure logic. Do we really believe we will go to hell if we support the death penalty? Do you consider yourself a better (spiritually) person if you support keeping these people alive?

The money spent on keeping these people alive in comfortable circumstances (approx £40k per year) could be much better spent helping the victim's families. Just what is the point in keeping these people alive. In many countries in the world life is cheap and thousands of people are killed every day in wars, by dictators and even in simple car accidents. Why would a murderers life be of value to any one, especially as it costs a lot of money to keep the public safe from them?

Murderers cannot be rehabilitated IMO. Once you have crossed that line and are capable of killing someone in cold blood, you will be capable of doing it again. Add to that the fact that many do not admit it and feel remorse but try everything to wheedle out of it. That applies to all murderers whatever their age. Running someone down in your car by accident is obviously different and should be dealt with differently.

The cases of Levi Bellfield and that Italian scum in the news recently have totally summed up all that is wrong in our 'punishment' system today. Many of these 'people' enjoy being in jail as they have a sense of routine and have everything done for them, they can even get a job and use the money to buy pleasurable items.

Miscarriages of justice would be pretty rare these days, we have moved on from the 1960's in terms of science and the verdict would be 'beyond reasonable doubt'. I could live with the occasional mistake tbh, it the murder rate in general was reduced. I can't understand the argument that it would not be a deterrant either? It would surely deter me if I was that way inclined.

It is said that there can be no 'emotion' in law and I have never understood this as if we did not have emotions, no one would give a toss if their loved ones were murdered. Well they would'nt love them anyway!

BelleDameSansMerci Fri 01-Jul-11 22:59:29

YABU. No-one has the right to take another's life. No-one.

shakey1500 Fri 01-Jul-11 22:59:30

YABU. It is completely hypocritical to say x killed y and in revenge, because we think it was wrong, we shall kill x.

bushymcbush Fri 01-Jul-11 22:59:35


'capital punishment' and 'civilised' in the same sentence make an oxymoron.

AgentZigzag Fri 01-Jul-11 23:01:18

No, no, no, no, no.

There's never, ever going to be a place for it in the society I love and are part of.

Punishment isn't about revenge, and miscarriages of justice will always happen.

mercibucket Fri 01-Jul-11 23:02:24

rather flippantly I would like to add there is no place for UNNECESSARY capitalisation in a civilised society

Omigawd Fri 01-Jul-11 23:02:47

I think poor use of capitals and commas should be punished......

bushymcbush Fri 01-Jul-11 23:04:45

OP says 'I could live with the occasional mistake'

Oh the irony. What if you were the one being mistakenly executed OP? Or worse, one of your children? Could you 'live' with that?

DioneTheDiabolist Fri 01-Jul-11 23:05:30

A civilised society accepts that it is wrong to take a life.
A civilised society accepts that mistakes can be made.
A civilised society rejects capital punishment.

AgentZigzag Fri 01-Jul-11 23:05:30

Oooo, in what way punished omigawd?

A good spanking? <<tries to look casual and hide overexcitement>>

iMemoo Fri 01-Jul-11 23:05:41

And could you pull the trigger OP? No matter what the person had been convicted of, no matter how bad the crime, could you be the person who actually killed another human being?

york78 Fri 01-Jul-11 23:05:57

yabu. Although i know some would agree with you.

MummyTigger Fri 01-Jul-11 23:06:24

I don't think YABU at all to be honest, because everything you have said is almost word-for-word how I would put it.

However, I wouldn't advocate the death penalty unless a) the murder was definitely pre-meditated. b) the murder was of a particularly heinous and brutal nature. And ) the murder could be proven, beyond a shadow of a doubt, 100%.

I would also dearly love to extend the death penalty towards scumbags who abuse children, but unfortunately that really WILL never happen.

<prepares for a flaming>

queenmaeve Fri 01-Jul-11 23:07:48

Really? Yabu

Omigawd Fri 01-Jul-11 23:10:26

Spanking, definitely smile

Oh wait, I said punished. grin

york78 Fri 01-Jul-11 23:10:51

Can it ever be 100% proven though. To many miscarriages of justice have happened in the past to make this an option.

AgentZigzag Fri 01-Jul-11 23:10:51

Part of me agrees with the OP too mummyT, but the part that knows it's just wrong all round outweighs that emotional knee jerk reaction to hideous violent crimes.

I don't think our justice system should be based on the very understandable, but distorted feelings of those who have unfortunately had experience of serious crimes.

It has to at least try to take an objective view of the crimes.

toutlemonde Fri 01-Jul-11 23:12:34

i've always been an anticapitalist

wearenotinkansas Fri 01-Jul-11 23:13:06


I also find your views totally repulsive.

Perhaps you should move to one of those countries where the death penalty is still in use? China perhaps, were Amnesty estimates 1,000s of people were killed last year, Iran, North Korea, Saudi Arabia. All countries where human rights are routinely abused - regardless of guilt of innocence. Or perhaps we should look at the US, where it it is estimated that African-American defendants receive the death penalty at three times the rate of white defendants in cases where the victims are white.

AgentZigzag Fri 01-Jul-11 23:13:33

'The money spent on keeping these people alive in comfortable circumstances (approx £40k per year) could be much better spent helping the victim's families.'

I also don't like the argument that these people are kept in luxury, prisons are brutal and dangerous places, and the alternative to keeping them in a half way decent prison would be to go back to the bad old days of Newgate.

kickingking Fri 01-Jul-11 23:14:08

'I could live with the occasional mistake' shock

Really? If it was YOUR DH? Or YOUR son?

I'm appalled.

BelleDameSansMerci Fri 01-Jul-11 23:16:13

MummyTiger, if the death penalty is punishment for child abuse or rape or anything other than murder then the perpetrator may as well kill the victim if the penalty for being caught is death anyway.

I think the death penalty is wrong. It's barbaric. As I said above, I don't think anyone has the right to take the life of another. I can imagine scenarios where I would want to do so; possibly could even do it; but that wouldn't make it right.

Ishani Fri 01-Jul-11 23:16:29

Doesn't it cost more to execute than it does to keep them alive ?
Personally thinking of the likes of Huntley, Brady, yes I could flick the switch pull the trigger whatever but I don't think we should return to capital punish on the off chance one innocent person is killed by the state.

Omigawd Fri 01-Jul-11 23:17:20

I actually think the council should employ people to shoot those whose dogs crap on pavements. I'm sure it would be an effective deterrent.

BelleDameSansMerci Fri 01-Jul-11 23:17:58

I didn't word that well... I hope my meaning was clear.

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