AIBU To think it is unfair that English students pay fees to study in Scotland?

[Pang]

I think it is unfair that English students are paying fees to attend ScotTish Universities when other EU students do not. Scottish parliment is now allowing Universities to charge English students up to £9000 to prevent them from "flooding" Scotland but other EU students still pay nothing.

How can this happen when England is part of the EU? Itn't this discrimination? Is this legal?

[A1980]

It's a disgrace. Don't get me started. An English student must pay when any Tom Dick or Harry from any EU country gets it free.

It should be scrapped along with the barnet formula.

Legally I don't know but it would be interesting to see the test case.

[Pang]

Sorry typing gone wrong. I meant to write " Isn't this discrimination?"

[WannaBeMarryPoppins]

I heard it's because Scottish students can study for free in other countries but not in England. I am not sure that's still true though, as Germany for example has introduced fees a few years back. And I don't think Scottish students would be exempt from that.

[bubblecoral]

Of course it's unfair! The sooner Scotland get proper independance, the better.

[nolembit]

They should make the EU students pay too.

[A1980]

"I heard it's because Scottish students can study for free in other countries but not in England."

That argument doesn't carry much weight. Because an English student can study at an EU uni cheaper than here but we still charge EU students the full fees as far as I'm aware.

[pointydog]

No more unfair than English students now have to pay huge sums of money in fees to English universities. Do you not think that that is more unfair? England has moved so far away from the idea that top quality education should be avialbale to all.

Scotland has always had its own education system and now has a devolved government which is making all sorts of different decisions.

If it's illegal, I'm sure it will soon be overturned.

[pointydog]

I find it ironic that you blame the Scottish system rather than this fairly awful new policy of the English government.

[Graciescotland]

EC law doesn't apply in this case. There has to be trans-border discrimination for it to apply. Therefore students from other EU countries can not be treated any less favourably than the scots but discriminating against the English, or the Welsh or Northern Irish for that matter, is a domestic matter. Although we're seperate countries, we're a single member state as far as EU is concerned.

[pointydog]

The English government which was well and truly bitten on the arse when such a huge number of universities all charged the maximum amount. Who'd a thunk it.

[Marlinspike]

My DS very much wants to apply to a scottish uni - but I am advising him against it, as I feel there will be a bias against english students on the basis that there may be a future legal challenge against the discriminatory fee structure, potentially leaving scottish universities out of pocket.

[Graciescotland]

Disclaimer; it's been a while since law school but I think that's why...

[DioneTheDiabolist]

Gracie, you are right on the money. You are soo smart.

When I heard about this I wondered is it worth getting DS dual nationality and having him take a year out after A-levels when he will move to Ireland and apply from there.
Disclaimer: The above thought is about a hypothetical situation as DS will only begin primary school in September. However, anyone know if it would be possible?

[OhBuggerandArse]

Was it not unfair for English students to be able to study at Scottish universities for less than they would pay at home?

And EU students do pay; the arrangement is that all EU nationals are entitled to use a host country's education system on the same terms as its own nationals.

So if England didn't charge its students ridiculous fees Scotland wouldn't either.

[Graciescotland]

Dione christ it's been a while since anyone called me smart, must dust off grey matter. Methinks and I may be wrong that there is a three year residency clause.

[crazycarol]

DioneTheDiabolist - it is nothing to do with nationality, it is down to where you usually live. So a scottish person living in England will have to pay fees in scotland, also an English person who usually lives in scotland will get it free. I am not sure as what / how long classes as usual residence though

[AberdeenAngusina]

Pang, are you arguing that its ok for English students to pay £9000 to study at Uni in England, but they should be able to study in Scotland for free? The whole idea of charging £9000 came from Westminster originally. Surely you should be protesting against the fees full stop, not just the fees to study in Scotland?

Basically, Scotland is treating English students the same way that England treats English students. If Westminster hadn't introduced fees for English students, Holyrood wouldn't have followed suit.

[coolascucumber]

I think it's unfair that the generation that paid no fees for its university education is now imposing fees on future generations. Civilised nations should promote academic/vocational excellence not ration it to those already more advantaged by family wealth. (And yes we have had too many taking poxy degrees in bollocks - that's a whole different argument)

[Pang]

I am not defending the stupidity of the current UK government (We don't have an English government). But I feel it is discriminatory to allow EU students to attend free and to charge the English students when we are supposedly part of the same nation.

I am completely against the high fees imposed on students in England and believe that it is a false economy.

[Pang]

I agree with Coolas. The wealthy won't worry about this at all because £9000 is slightly cheaper then what many are paying for private school anyway.

[AlcoPop]

YABU

Education is a devolved power and we can do what we like with it, within the bounds of law.

I understand that the devolved Government wants all non-Scottish students to pay, and is currently seeking a way to charge the EU Students.

I no Lawyer, but I doubt if they'll get anywhere with the EU. If they did, most Member states would form a continental, disorderly, and pushy huddle for the right too.

The argument is, "Scottish uni places for Scottish students and the places are better than the tat you're offering in your member state." or somesuch.

If they don't like it they can always move their brainy backsides up here for a while and then study for free. I think that that's what's an aim of the policy attract and retain a key resource, a populace with economic potential.

[brainy backsides - I am not an anatomist either...]

[AberdeenAngusina]

I could be wrong, but I understand that some European Universities are expecting to do well out of this; many Dutch Unis offer degrees taught in English and their fees are lower than those here. They're expecting a bumper year as English students head for Europe. Any else heard this?

The news here is that Scottish Unis are planning to charge English students £6000 per year, but of course degrees are four years here, so 4x £6000, as opposed to 3x£9000. No one would come if they charged £9000 per year, because of the extra year. £6000 per year will probably keep the current balance stable.

[PTA]

But as has been pointed out, why should Scotland not charge English students when England will charge their own students exorbitant fees?

If English students are not charged fees then what is to stop all English students studying in Scotland? A very unlikely possibility granted, but where would that leave the English unis? Who would seriously want to pay a small fortune to an English uni when they could get as good, if not better degree, for free from a Scottish uni?

[nolembit]

AberdeenAngusina - Scottish degrees generally do take 4 years, however students with good A level passes can omit the first year and so complete the degree in 3 years. Historically English students commonly came to Scotland to study because they did poorly in their A levels.

[fivegomadindorset]

What is unfair is that the reason why english universities were allowed to charge in the first place was because scottish mod helped piaga it through parliamemt