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To think that if you get stabbed by the owner of the house you're trying to rob...

(271 Posts)
BupcakesandCunting Thu 23-Jun-11 19:12:53

That it's an occupational hazard of being a burglar?

Obviously I am NOT glad that someone has died here but if you break into a property, you cannot guarantee that you will come out of it very well off. If someone broke into my house, I don't know how I would react but if I felt that my family were under threat and I was panicking, I imagine it would be very easy to go OTT and the other person come off worse.

I know that the law says that you're supposed to use "reasonable force" but heat of the moment/panicking etc etc...

What does everyone else think?

Groovymoves Thu 23-Jun-11 19:15:05

Totally agree with you.

If you don't want to get battered/stabbed, don't break into someone's house.

tidybaby Thu 23-Jun-11 19:16:28

Also agree. Call it an 'occupational hazard' if you will.

jade80 Thu 23-Jun-11 19:17:45

Also agree. Shame the law doesn't!

BornSicky Thu 23-Jun-11 19:18:48

Tony Martin's case is probably the most debated on this subject: Tony Martin

David Cameron last year said that he wanted homeowners to have more rights in the case of home assault and burglary.

I think the law is pretty well balanced now on this. I wouldn't want too many changes for fear of developing a more vigilante based approach to justice.

BrokenBananaTantrum Thu 23-Jun-11 19:21:30

It is sad that someone has dies BUT if they were not breaking in to someone's home it would not have happened. If anyone broke into my house and was a threat to DD I too would become violent I think. It would be very hard to do a risk assessment if I found someone outside DD's bedroom and think I would lash out hard and fast.

frownieface Thu 23-Jun-11 19:22:37

I think there is more to this than a failed burglary. And I think in the coming days and weeks we will learn more about it.

But I agree that if someone is going to enter your (or my) house uninvited with the intention so steal, they should expect reasonable force to be used.

Peachy Thu 23-Jun-11 19:24:22

See if anyone broke into my house and was a threat to my boys I might well defend them but vilence has to be appropriate to threat level IMOl if somene ios upstairs or indeed running away then I call 999, I don;t think violemce is OK then (relevant to martin case).

However I saw a debate on this leg and they said it wouldn;t have cvered tony martin

BupcakesandCunting Thu 23-Jun-11 19:25:14

I agree with BornSicky on the change in laws that Cameron is trying to implement. I think it will cause problems.

I just don't think that cases like this can be cut and dry as they are now. For instance, if someone broke into my home tonight and I couldn't reasonable escape with my son, but I could kosh the intruder around the head with a heavy object, from which he later dies, I would probably be done for manslaughter. In a sane world, I should be let off. Lone woman, protecting herself and child.

However, as in the Tony Martin case, I don't agree with killing intruders that are not posing a threat (running away in this case) Any change in law might mean that homeowners think it's fine to take a pop-shot at an intruder even when they are retreating.

LoveBeingAbleToNamechange Thu 23-Jun-11 19:28:17

Agree and agree we will here more about this case. Certainly not reasonable to be carrying said injured man down the road hmm

Peachy Thu 23-Jun-11 19:31:36

Agree bupcakes

The reasonable in reasonable force HAS to be key

TheCrackFox Thu 23-Jun-11 19:31:39

There were 4 intruders all wearing balaclavas - can you imagine just how terrifying that would be? He probably got stabbed during the heat of the moment type thing.

bubblecoral Thu 23-Jun-11 19:32:53

You absolutely bring it on yourself if you break into someones house. I don't even feel that sorry that someone died, although I know I should. But I just can't find it in me to have sympathy for someone that chooses to take the risk of being confronted by forcing their way into someones property with the intention of stealing.

JoySzasz Thu 23-Jun-11 19:36:03

I am in the US, (of course) it is a totally different ball game here.

I have been advised by well meaning friends that if I ever need to shoot any intruder hmm (and he falls slightly off my property) I must be sure to drag them back to 'my side'

This was helpful advice,as we don't own a gun.

I would be terrified if an intruder broke in and I was alone with the children,I can't say what I would do? especially if they came anywhere near them.

AuntiePickleBottom Thu 23-Jun-11 19:37:25

if someone broke into my home, then i would do every thing i could to protect my kid and myself

Material things can be replaced thats what home insurance is for, so would probably hide while phoning 999.

i can think of it logically sat behind a computer, however i don't really know what i would do if i was in that situation

BupcakesandCunting Thu 23-Jun-11 19:38:09

I agree, CrackFox. (like the name btw) Lashing out when afraid is a human reaction. I totally understand how this happened.

It makes you think though... One school of thought is that it might make other would-be burglars think again about breaking into people's homes. Another is that incidents like this won't deter burglars, they will still break and enter and they'll start carrying guns with them in case the homeowners decide to defend their home. sad

Notinmykitchen Thu 23-Jun-11 19:39:11

Exactly TheCrackFox, also most people do not keep weapons in their house, but pretty much everyone has knives of some sort in their kitchen. I would imagine if 4 people broke into your house in balaclavas most people would grab whatever was handy to protect themselves. I certainly wouldn't hang around to find out what their intentions were!

BupcakesandCunting Thu 23-Jun-11 19:40:56

A relative of mine sprayed an entire can of Elnett into the eyes of an intruder, in the '80s.Then she sat on him whilst her DH rang the police. Good woman. grin

Punkatheart Thu 23-Jun-11 19:45:10

My God Bup - she must eat her Weetabix in the morning. Incredible.

I think it is rather early to speculate if there was something else going on here. Gangs of thieves have become more the norm - more akin to the American home invasion style robberies. They care less if people are in - and yes, if they can attack they will. They are dangerous and if I wanted to protect my family - oh yes, I could be a tigeress.

thegruffalosma Thu 23-Jun-11 19:46:18

I can understand anyone attacking an intruder to protect themselves but attacking someone running away (like in the Tony Martin case) is through revenge, not fear. And dishing out the punishment for a crime yourself can't be supported by the law.

HerHissyness Thu 23-Jun-11 19:51:13

I heard there were 4 intruders, the remaining 3 were found to be the ones who dragged the injured man away from the scene.

If he has many many wounds sadly it'll be possibly unreasonable force, but if it were one or 2 then who knows.

Tony martin got convicted IMHO because he had been broken into before and placed his firearm in reach for the next time they came. So he planned and prepared for the event.

Bupcakes, an ENTIRE can of Elnett? shock .... I suppose he was worth it!! grin

EverythingInMiniature Thu 23-Jun-11 19:58:51

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

PigletJohn Thu 23-Jun-11 19:59:33

I don't approve of burglary, and I don't approve of stabbing. But on Sky, I was puzzled that the neighbour...

"Mrs Sharp-Cadigan, 67, described Mr Flanagan as a "worker" who left early in the mornings and his son as a "lad" who had a lot of visitors to the house."

I have no idea who all the vistors were, or if they have any relevance to the four balaclava'd intruders.

knobbysbird Thu 23-Jun-11 20:14:28

Who knows, 'til the full facts are revealed. The police must know what they are doing (WE HOPE) I do wonder at the charge being MURDER though, and not manslaughter. They must have something on them?

Omigawd Thu 23-Jun-11 20:19:17

What force counts as "unreasonable" when 4 balaclava clad toughs break into your house???

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