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Child brides, FGM and the ILk.

(63 Posts)
wildkittydeer Wed 22-Jun-11 14:56:41

Some of you may have seen or heard the programme on the BBC last night about child abuse in some religious orders. The whole subject is sickening but it highlights something I feel so aggravated about that I could kick the door and the windows to smithereens. There has been news recently about an article in the National Geographic concerning child brides. I ask anyone not familiar to make themselves so for it is unbelievable in its awfulness. The woman who wrote it says it is not a simple issue and that such children cannot be just rescued. I found her attitude shocking because no human could research what she did and not feel they would want to return to the area armed to the hilts. Girls as young as 6 or 7 are being abused and the males in their area state 'well here the man is king'. Some hospitals in India now no longer have any female births, women and girls in lots of countries in Africa and Asia undergo the most horrific abuse to their sex organs, do not allow this to be fobbed of as FGM, always claim it for what it is not just an abbreviation. Yes terrible things happened according to the BBC in boarding schools, most of it 20, 30 even 40 years ago. This abuse is happening now, not just in far off countries but it is being facilitated here. Yes it makes the news but it is so couched in PC language, so bound by fear of no upsetting certain groups and yet the reality is enough to make any woman suffer nightmares. Do not buy the shite that it happens in all cultures, no it does not and most cultures where it is an aberration, it is condemned out of hand. This is not routine in places where it is genuinely believed that women are either sub human, evil or born to be kept in their place.

gapants Wed 22-Jun-11 14:59:07


I understand your anger, but your post is unclear.

knittedbreast Wed 22-Jun-11 15:00:12

it sounds awful but i am fairly confused.

i am very worried about the routine use of rape in wars now and how it seems to be getting worse.

whats our world coming to?

AMumInScotland Wed 22-Jun-11 15:04:39

Yes, we know those things happen and that they are terrible. I'm not sure what your point is? Referring to it as FGM hardly makes it sound ok - "mutilation" isn't a nice, "cultural" word, is it? And sex with 6yo is never ok.

Why are you assuming most people aren't horrified by these things?

twirlymum Wed 22-Jun-11 15:14:34

I did read the article in National Geographic, and could have wept for those girls.
Unfortunately, even though there is legislation in some of the places mentioned banning child brides, it is still rife.
Man is king, it seems, in these cultures, and cannot be challenged.

suburbophobe Wed 22-Jun-11 15:27:28

FGM = Female Genital Mutilation

No idea what ILk stands for.

Yes, saw that photo report of the child brides, so sad.

Reminded me of that book about the 2 girls from Birmingham who were sold in Yemen by their father....

Really, the more publicity this stuff gets, the better....cos it will (hopefully) speed up the abolishment of it all.

CheerfulYank Wed 22-Jun-11 15:36:58

I think ILK is just "ilk" . Child brides, FGM, and the ilk.

gapants Wed 22-Jun-11 19:41:48

Thanks for the info suburbaphobe and cheerfulyank

Obvs this is a hideous situation and there should be a far greater profile of what is happening.

I am not sure what the Op wants to get out of this thread TBH, I am sort of scratching my head a bit here.

BornSicky Wed 22-Jun-11 19:46:10

messy conflation of numerous issues.

OP, what are you trying to say, or is it just a mixed up rant?

Lunabelly Wed 22-Jun-11 19:53:50

I read the NatGeo article. Heartbreaking. Made me very angry at the atrocities perpetuated against my gender every bloody day.

izzywhizzyletsgetbusy Thu 23-Jun-11 00:42:48

This subject enrages me..

It beggars belief that paedophilia and mutilation of female genitalia is considered to be a cultural, and therefore acceptable, norm in ANY society.

Western governments continue to trade with or give financial aid to these countries while the silence of gutless politicians condones these barbaric practices.

Yoke Ono is right: woman is the nigger of the world

worraliberty Thu 23-Jun-11 00:52:36

She's right I suppose but then circumcision of males is so routine in even the UK

I think the whole thing is just horrible.

Leave other people's bodies alone...especially little babies.

izzywhizzyletsgetbusy Thu 23-Jun-11 01:00:45

I know exactly where you're coming from wildkitty -

I can hardly bear to think about this subject because it can so easily incense me to the point of incoherency, and fills me with a desire to get my mitts on a Kalishnikov.

I'm wondering whether it would be in order to utilise the power of mumsnet to set up an internet petition, and/or produce a specimen letter for m/netters to send to their MPs?

Tchootnika Thu 23-Jun-11 01:03:27

izzywhizzyletsgetbusy - I think that's a great idea!

izzywhizzyletsgetbusy Thu 23-Jun-11 01:40:52

Circumcision of a penis is a minor procedure performed for reasons of religious/cultural tradition or hygiene which does not interfere with the male's enjoyment of sexual intercourse or their ability to reproduce naturally.

This is not the case for the unfortunate female children who are forced to undergo a clitoridectomy and the partial or full removal of external genitalia without benefit of qualified medical personnel, sterile operating theatre/surgical instruments, anaesthetic, or pain relief of any kind purely to satisfy perverted male 'logic' disguised as religious belief or cultural tradition.

Clitoridectomy is rarely required for therapeutic reasons such as cancer but, neverthless, it is my understanding that certain private hospitals IN THE UK carry out this radical and needless procedure on young females at the behest of their male relatives.

The marriage of female children as young as 5 or 6 to fully grown adult males is another matter entirely

Where's the nearest arsenal? And I don't mean the footbal team.

<not going to sleep well tonight emoticon>

izzywhizzyletsgetbusy Thu 23-Jun-11 01:52:46

You see!! It gets me going to the point that I can barely write!!!

The above should have been addressed to worra not as a beef but to show that the circumcision of males cannot be compared to female circumcision.

It's also my understanding that a case can be made for routine male circumcision shortly after birth as a hygienic measure which may be of benefit to their future female sexual partners?

Hopefully, someone will have read more about that subject than I have. I do know that if I had any ds having them circumcised is something I would give consideration to.

worraliberty Thu 23-Jun-11 01:59:59

I'm sorry but no-one imo has the right to chop bits off of babies..male or female for no reason.

And considering uncircumcised males manage to live and grow perfectly well without having this procedure done means it really is for no reason.

If a child grows up having medical problems with their foreskin then fair enough...remove it if that's the only option.

But to do it for any other reason is just as barbaric in my opinion. The male half of the human race evolved perfectly well with foreskins before someone decided they should be removed 'as standard'.

izzywhizzyletsgetbusy Thu 23-Jun-11 02:18:07

Sorry I don't know how to do neat little links but, if I could, this one would say 'have a read, worra. have a read, worra

izzywhizzyletsgetbusy Thu 23-Jun-11 03:50:19

Damn - I knew I wouldn't easily be able to put this subject out of my mind, and I've got to be at a meeting in just a few hours time <sob>

Please substitute "perverted male 'logic'" for "male insecurity" (of a type that leads to a need to control).

Morloth Thu 23-Jun-11 07:32:42

izzywhizzyletsgetbusy 'I do know that if I had any ds having them circumcised is something I would give consideration to.'

Then you are no better than the better you are ranting about.

No cutting bits off babies/children.

FGM disgusts me as does MGM, both are vile and should be illegal in civilised countries and we should not be trading with countries that condone it.

I don't care what your religion is, it is wrong to cut bits off children for anything other than medical necessity.

Lunabelly Thu 23-Jun-11 09:18:48

If someone performed FGM on their child because "the fairies told me to" they'd be sectioned. Think on that.

porcamiseria Thu 23-Jun-11 09:31:45

and your point is????? what do you think, noone cares?

Birdsgottafly Thu 23-Jun-11 09:51:12

The OP's point was to raise awareness that the practice is still common around the world and still happens in the UK.

Sw's often have to go in on a 'softly softly' approach to what is child abuse because of the 'respect for other culturial practices' but abuse is abuse.

Op i think that the woman is right, it is a practice that is culturially ingrained and it isn't as simple as 'rescuing these children'.

Birdsgottafly Thu 23-Jun-11 09:53:29

It is the same as children considered to be 'possessed' and the way to remove demons is to beat and starve them, which still happens, there aren't any simple answers to this and it will take centuries to completely remove. Countries like ours can lead the way, though, by zero tolerance.

Lunabelly Thu 23-Jun-11 10:12:30

It was once part of a certain culture for a widow to throw herself (or be thrown) onto her husband's funeral pyre. Note many of these 'cultural' practices are extreme physical and sexual violence against women and girls. And people get away with it every day. Wearing certain clothes or Morris dancing is cultural. Time governments slammed FGM etc as not cultural, but for what it is. Sexual violence against children. Stop fucking pussyfooting around the sensibilities of people who have no regard for females. Education education education.

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