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remove on fb and completely delete the whole group from my life?

(23 Posts)
eandz Mon 20-Jun-11 13:00:54

Over a year, I've tried to make friends with American Muslim Women in London (I too am an American Muslim Woman who has married a British man and now I live in London). My attempts have failed pretty badly. I often feel that many people who attribute religious views to their lives can at times be very very judegmental and horribly mean. I always try not to be judgemental, and let general absurdities slide. I do want muslim friends, and I would like more company...Although, in reality I'm starting to think that all religions are pretty much equal, maybe I should pick another religion.

The Christian and Jewish/other women of other or no faiths are ridiculously nice!

For the past year, I've been friends with one specific woman who has been quite kind (in the other thread she is named Sunshine). She's a nice and happy person and I do like her.

However, I hate hanging out with her alone because she brings up the fact that she's in that specific clique and they are all very nice and supportive of her(they have all been evil/vile towards me)and when I go to one of her events, everyone is generally invited to another party the next day by another member of this clique and everyone talks about the next hang out party.

On Saturday another woman I've been trying to be kind to was blatantly taking rsvp's infront of my face for her party the next day! A few months before she invited me and then disinvited me to a bbq because (she blamed the weather, but I figured it was because she didn't want me there anyway).

I Didn't take it too seriously as I'm quite used to this terrible treatment. I think I've only taken it for soo long because my parents taught me to be nice and kind to everyone and give everyone chances. At this point though, I'm done with being the schmuck.

However,Saturday was the last straw, I felt dismissed and belittled and for once I just figured, fuck it it--I love my life too much to deal with people like this. I felt like I did make a good effort, but also felt like maybe these women all met each other at some convention for 'angry wives'. I often think of them as the 'angry beaver brigade'.

Objectively though, I am a few years younger than the youngest member of that group (3 years and 12 years younger than the oldest member) and I am the only one with a child. Sunshine is the only one who is openly admitting to being on fertility treatment. So maybe they are just depressed about fertility/being older?

I do have a concurent thread with a much different scenario running that does include the mystery of someone trying to pitt me against my husband.

vic77en Mon 20-Jun-11 13:08:46

No YANU ditch thm, life is too short to waste any more time on a clique of bitches. Sounds as thouugh you have met other women you think arre nicer, why does it mater they're not American Muslims?

ILoveYouToo Mon 20-Jun-11 13:09:56


knittedbreast Mon 20-Jun-11 13:11:47

i know what you mean i struggle with it aswell.

are you not muslim enough for them? or maybe to muslim? (i hope you know what i mean by that)

I eventually gave up. are you a revert? i found lots are hostile for all manner of reasons but much nicer and more friendly when alone than in a group.

prettyfly1 Mon 20-Jun-11 13:16:16

I think in this instance religion may be somewhat of a red herring. I know people of almost every faith and a nice person is a nice person, a cliquey bunch of witches, is just that, regardless of ethnicity or cultural background. I try to take the attitude that I am good enough for anyone and if they dont think so it is their problem. These women sound vile and I think you need to ditch them and find friends who you are happy with, perhaps without aiming for a particular group iykwim.

EricNorthmansMistress Mon 20-Jun-11 13:17:18

I read your other thread and was going to suggest this on there - how about you stop trying to find 'american/muslim' friends and just try to make friends? I know it's nice to be with people of your own background and religion at times but not every english non-muslim woman is out clubbing and necking cocktails every weekend wink

My H is also foreign muslim and has a few friends of his nationality and religion but most are not.

Pumpernickel10 Mon 20-Jun-11 13:17:49

Is this your 2nd thread about ditching them op

HerHissyness Mon 20-Jun-11 13:27:26

IME, the wives of muslims I met were very hard to get to know. It was competitive islam as far as I was concerned and it was ugly at times. It was a group created on a very narrow premise, expat muslims in a particular city, and with hindsight was only ever going to attract a narrow clique.

The group was horrific. It seemed like they had something to catch up on, they were vile, judgemental, racist, misogynist and out and out mean. They didn't like it when I reminded them that their mothers, grandmothers and nieces, aunts etc were all christian/whatever and they were insulting them, as well as others. They would discuss ways of ignoring non-muslims, of forcing them off pavements etc shock

Needless to say, my membership of the group was shortlived.

I agree with the comments, just find friends, real ones, forget the labels.

Scuttlebutter Mon 20-Jun-11 13:31:08

OP, can we just get a couple of things straightened out about older and childless women? Not every childless woman is in a state of depression about it, in fact I know lots of childfree women who are positively cheerful (gasp wink) about their lives and are far too busy running their businesses, doing interesting hobbies, enjoying their relationships and families to be worried about a woman with one child. They generally only get depressed when said mummies revert to lazy stereotypes or simply talk non stop about their PFB. Shoot me now. And I'm 46, and it doesn't make me down at all, in fact I am exceedingly glad to be here, like being alive, and am not depressed or bitter about my age, in fact my life is improving. So could you ditch the thought that they are all jealous of your childbearing or your youth?

This group sounds as though all they do is go to parties or "gatherings" (very 60s!). What about doing some voluntary work for a charity or taking up a hobby? I love quilting and it is overwhelmingly female. There are masses of voluntary groups/charities who are crying out for helpers. You could be meeting people and making friends as well as doing some good/doing something constructive with your time.

ChazsBrilliantAttitude Mon 20-Jun-11 13:32:59

OP maybe this isn't the right group for you. HerHissyness I'd have to say that your experience is the exact opposite of mine. My DH is muslim and I have always found the wives really nice (two of them also did childminding for our kids). They are a mixture of SAHM and WOHM (I am a WOHM)who have given me some very interesting insights into their wider culture and in turn I have helped them with navigating some of the trickier parts of British culture.

HerHissyness Mon 20-Jun-11 15:08:14

you are here though chaz, the expat thing adds another dimension in that the wives were not always of the same nationality, but we were all there and all married to muslims. There were about 40-50 of them.

Egypt is a bit of a funny farm tbh. grin I'm so glad to be home, and away from X.

Muslims IME here have much more wider views. The ones there fell into the all west is evil mind-set... it was exhausting! grin

ChazsBrilliantAttitude Mon 20-Jun-11 15:35:47

HerHissyness all the wives I am talking about are immigrants mainly North African I am the only "native born" Brit.

It may well have been an Egypt specific thing - My DH is Algerian and I don't think he has forgiven them for the football yet.

HerHissyness Mon 20-Jun-11 15:44:16


We were all foreigners in a foreign land, so we were the immigrants trying to negotiate the insanity of Egypt.

I may have been very unlucky, over and over and over again, but so many of them over there both religious and non-religious were just plain ODD grin

I had one good friend in the end, that was all i needed to survive. smile

redexpat Mon 20-Jun-11 16:02:47

YANBU. Could you join an american/expat club of some sort and/or a muslim club? It's tough being an expat and this group don't sound like they're helping you at all.

nailak Mon 20-Jun-11 16:12:04

they sound incredibly rude, and lackin in adhab,


where in london are you? there must be plent of other ways to meet sisters, events etc?

eandz Mon 20-Jun-11 21:25:49

i totally didn't mean to post this twice. (sooo incredibly embarrassed!) to be honest, i didn't even mean to post it once! it was just supposed to be a cathartic write out. blah. oh well.

Kallista Tue 21-Jun-11 04:54:10

Eandz - i posted on your other thread too.
Dont worry - its normal as an adult to struggle with finding good friends.
Try looking 'outside the box' - stick with your religion but open your mind to being friends with a mixture of women.
Adopt a friendly attitude - maybe you are nervous which can put people off, so relax - practise smiling and saying hello to neighbours. (Eg IME any elderly ladies love the opportunity to find young friends to chat to - also it sounds daft but get a cute dog + you will meet so many regular dogwalkers out and about.)
Volunteer at your mosque, your DC's school, an animal shelter or WRVS. Also join a good gym - take sociable classes eg zumba, yoga, pilates, street dance. Go to the gym cafe after your class as other members will be there. Try a book group, local history club, anything. Don't restrict yourself to people from one religion - but you are likely to find muslim friends among the new people you meet.

NorksAkimbo Tue 21-Jun-11 07:54:34

OP...I was in a similar situation; I am an American living in England, and I befriended a group of American women in England online group. In the end, I had to dump them; while I worked hard to create a life for myself here in England, they were still 'stuck' on bitching about it all the time.

Someone else suggested justmaking friends, rather than trying to befriend those just because of the American Muslim connection...I think that's spot on. It took some time, but I now have some really lovely friends here in England.

fastweb Tue 21-Jun-11 08:34:05

I've been out of the UK for over 20 years. I think the one thing that helped me above all others in terms of being able to stop "expat-istus clouds" making life a bit grey was stopping trying to base friendships\connections on a narrowly focused set of elements in common.

The pool is too small, so invariably I ended up making massive compromises in terms of actually getting on with people or seeing eye to eye, for the sake of a common language\cultural perspective.

Widening the hunting ground for friends and acquaintances ended up with me finding people I actually got on with on many levels and the "hump" of the language\culture gap has been easier to navigate and get past than the "hump" of sharing a language\culture, but not actually liking a person very much once our nationality was taken out of the equation.

So yes, if it is causing more upset than pleasure dump it. Have a look around your local area for opportunities that interest you that DON'T automatically shrink the pool to a very small group and force you to compromise to the point that a friend feels more somebody you need to protect yourself against. Maybe a more generalized Muslim group would be a good place to start, then you can pick it based on it jibing with your personal religious outlook rather than putting up with the outlook because they happen to be American ?

I found it was worth feeling a little lonely in the interim. Lonely is better than being picked on, obviously excluded and looked down upon.

Once I got alternatives sorted I was able to return to the expat based stuff when I felt like it, because I wasn't relying on it in any huge way, so it simply couldn't cause me any grief.

Not being over invested in the expat groups means I get to pootle off and spend my time elsewhere when the group goes into one of those periodic phases where they whip each other up about their issues with being away from home so the negativity spreads and intensifies till a fug of anger, frustration and unhappiness hangs over the group for a while. I can't be doing with that, I am too easy to infect and get dragged down. When I am surrounded by negativity I end up all depressed, wilted and gloomy and I start to blow everything out of proportion.

Good luck love, it can be tricky finding your niche and it's not unusual for it to feel a bit "three steps forward, two steps back" at times.

eandz Tue 21-Jun-11 13:07:38

I think I've just had to sit down, write this all out, look at it and realize it's not a normal every day situation.

i think what hurt me the most is, that i'm sooo busy with other stuff, that i never put all the pieces together.

HellAtWork Tue 21-Jun-11 13:18:46

YANBU Do it! Glad to see you're feeling more gah fuck 'em than before sometimes it takes the heart a while to catch up with the head - mine involves a terrible time lag generally! And manners and politeness do create problems in picking up others on their rudeness.

Ps realized on FB that pub night is thrusday night (not weds so no clash with interview) so let's still meet up thursdya day for a quick coffee if you're still free before the hell of DS having a haircut and then have got my childcare sorted for the evening to go and mingle if you can do Thursday night for the pub night!

Pps You may well have a point re why they are hostile to you but they are not worth your time and headspace in trying to work them out and well done for reporting nasty messages to police

harpfairy Tue 21-Jun-11 13:36:36

HI eandz. I remember you from antenatal threads (have namechanged, ooh, and dozen times since then though... we had our babies in the same hospital though never met.)
I think the advice others have given is good - just try to make real friends - and now you are a mum you may find it easiest to meet other mums through your little boy and his nursery/activities whatever. I have plenty of American/Australian/even more far flung friends and friends of all religions but the fact we have kids of similar ages means we have an awful lot in common regardless of those other differences.
If I may give a little gentle advice meant in the kindest possible way. You come across as a little prone to drama. I am sure you have encountered a lousy group of people here but it can be easier to make a fresh start if you take a deep breath and try your hardest to approach everything in a calm and centred way smile Good luck. And yes I would delete them on FB!

eandz Tue 21-Jun-11 16:20:00

Yes, I hate drama and still manage to bring it into my life. I really hope to simplify again and stay this way permanently. Thanks Harpfairy

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