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to think that this is not a suitable punishment for stabbing another child at school...

(119 Posts)
ballstoit Fri 17-Jun-11 16:39:44

A Year 6 child at the junior school my DS is due to go to in September stabbed another child in the playground after school with a Stanley knife. He had carried the knife around all day, having brought it in from home and tried to stab the other child's face. The victim put their hand up in defence and was stabbed in the hand, and then the child was restrained by a parent before school staff also intervened.

The punishment, which according to the letter I have received tonight was approved by the police and 'Behaviour Support Team' in the council, is for the child to be kept in at lunchtime for a fortnight. The letter seems to be an attempt to calm the anger that a lot of parents feel about the incident. It doesn't detail the punishment but when I asked my DSs teacher she confirmed that this was the sanction the school had decided on.

AIBU to think this is not enough, and to be seriously concerned about my DS starting at this school in September?

ddubsgirl Fri 17-Jun-11 16:43:31

scarey!a kid threatend my twins and couple of other boys in their year the other day saying he was going to stab them with a penknife,kids told us when we picked them up,the teacher knew but didnt say anything so we went to the head,his parents were called in but other than that i dont know what or how they are dealing with this,maybe the school are doing more they just havent told everyone what they are doing to deal with this.

ballstoit Fri 17-Jun-11 16:45:14

I guess they could be, although the child has definitely not been excluded as has been in school all this week.

ddubsgirl Fri 17-Jun-11 16:47:47

alot of schools wont exclude a child now,ours wont,the head does not beleive in excluding a child,im sure they would be in contact with outside help,you dont stab someone for no reason and need some serious help!but keeping the child in school may be better than being at home to do whatever he wants if u see what i mean?

lisad123 Fri 17-Jun-11 16:50:47

well the little sod that headbutted me and knocked me out when i was at work got 1 day surpention!!

ddubsgirl Fri 17-Jun-11 16:51:34

sad

ballstoit Fri 17-Jun-11 16:56:59

Seems that the victims distress is completely ignored...am worried about how safe DS will be at a school where this has happened. Almost a green light for pupils to do whatever they want sad

c0rn55ilk Fri 17-Jun-11 16:58:26

the school are just informing you of what you need to know. There will probably be other things happening that are confidential.

I'm surprised by this tbh. I have a friend whose DS was permanently excluded just for taking a penknife into school (was reinstated on appeal though) never mind actually using it (not that he was going to I have to say!)

The little boy in DDs class who smacked her head against the radiator got a 3 day exclusion.

A fortnight of no lunchtimes seems a bit pathetic on the face of it tbh, but I would hope that there was other things going on behind the scenes to address the issues underlying what went on, and these are being kept from public knowledge on the basis that it's not really anyone's business but those directly involved?

SquishyCinnamonSwirls Fri 17-Jun-11 17:00:34

The child might be under an internal exclusion that you are not aware of. Sometimes it's actually better and safer for the child to do one of these than to be suspended and allowed to do god knows what at home. You don't know if the child is on the at risk register for example. There are a multitude of reasons that they might have decided on this course of action, that you of course are not privy to. If you have concerns ask for an appointment with the HT to have them addressed directly.

bubblecoral Fri 17-Jun-11 17:03:05

If they have the behaviour support team involved, there will be extra intervention going on that you don't know about. And rightly so, it's confidential for a reason. His parents may well be punishing him at home as well, but you wouldn't know about that either.

As long as the school are dealing with it, and your child is not involved, there isn't much else you can do.

But remember that being expelled is not always punishment, nor is it the only thing that you should be thinking of in terms of a sufficient punishment.

ddubsgirl Fri 17-Jun-11 17:04:51

all schools have different ways of dealing with things,my ds2 was excluded for 3 days after another boy kicked him between the legs so my son hit back,a yr 11 knocked the boy to the floor and my ds stamped on his head,he wasnt excluded for that,it was the fact it took 3 teachers to pull my ds off him sad this kid had been picking on my ds in & out of school for 3 years and he had enough.

ballstoit Fri 17-Jun-11 17:06:07

Depends on who you see as directly involved I guess. Not any of my business as both the children involved will be at senior school in September so won't be sharing a playground. However, if my DS was at the school now I would argue that him having to share playground, dinner hall and toilets with a child capable of behaving so violently would make it my business.

Which is what several of DS's friends parents are concerned about, as they have children who are at the school.

I think that the letter the school has done nothing to reassure everyone... 'children's safety is a priority' is what's being said, but the actions do not back up the words in this case.

Isitreally Fri 17-Jun-11 17:07:01

If he's in Year 6 then he is 10 or 11 years old - ie above the age of criminal responsibility and should be punished by the police not just the school. I do see that he may have a bad home life and be unhappy but 2 weeks of no lunchtime are no punishment at all for a premeditated stabbing (premeditated on the grounds that he didn't just grab a nearby knife in the heat of the moment - he took it into school).
I would be beyond angry if my child were the victim here and would push for punishment to go a lot further. I would not be happy sending my child to a school where they feel lunchtime detentions qualify as a suitable punishment for a knife attack! I would not be happy if the police believed that this was a suitable punishment either. At the very very least he should be excluded now for the rest of the school year.

Isitreally Fri 17-Jun-11 17:11:04

bubblecoral - in terms of a stabbing I wouldn't just be thinking of punishment. I wouldn't actually care whether the attacker was pleased about being excluded or not. I would just want him away from other children so that they are safe in school.
Does nobody think what this must have done to the victim? It is likely that the child will not fully recover for a long time (mentally I mean). If somebody attacked and wounded you at work tomorrow, would you be happy to have to see them everyday afterwards except at lunchtimes?
The feelings and the rights of the child who was attacked should come first.

ballstoit Fri 17-Jun-11 17:14:16

There is uproar at school at the moment, petitions being handed around and threats to go to the papers etc. My mouth is firmly closed at school as I feel that parents should try to support the school, particularly in front of their children. In private (and on MN), I do worry about the discipline at the school, and how safe my DS is going to be. I'm not generally PFB but the thought that this could happen at his primary school is horrifying.

exoticfruits Fri 17-Jun-11 17:34:20

It should be exclusion.
My DS was stabbed with a compass in a practical joke that went wrong. The boy was excluded for a few days-we were told that had he meant it (and everyone including my DS said that he hadn't) he would have been expelled.
A DC who brings a weapon to school with the express purpose of hurting another DC has significant problems that need addressing.

GabbyLoggon Fri 17-Jun-11 17:37:07

he was 6. difficult. Parents sanctioned?

exoticfruits Fri 17-Jun-11 17:38:55

He was 10 or 111 yrs not 6 yrs.

exoticfruits Fri 17-Jun-11 17:39:09

Sorry 11 yrs!!!

lljkk Fri 17-Jun-11 17:42:06

What does exclusion achieve, really? It's not like most kids are gagging to be in school 6 hours a day; exclusion is a holiday, potentially. If the boy's parents are feckless and the boy is excluded for the whole next month, the LEA would have to send tutors into his home (not a punishment, either) or send him to a PRU (he is probably not disturbed enough for that). Exclusion is an immense punishment to the parents if they care -- you get a lot of homework to do with the child. And the child is not supposed to go out in public whilst it's on, which is very restrictive, too. I wonder what happens if, for instance, if the "parents" are foster carers who work full time, if they would be able to say that they can't take a month off without suffering undue financial hardship. I suspect there's a lot you can't know, OP.

I personally would favour something like a restorative justice scheme, which is also what the police might push for if they were involved, too.

Do you know everything about the original incident, OP? Was the stabber provoked or attacked first? Pocket knives used to be ordinary boy's toys, I don't see that possession necessarily means premeditation.

StewieGriffinsMom Fri 17-Jun-11 17:56:54

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Nullius Fri 17-Jun-11 17:59:30

YANBU its a bloody disgrace.

We are way too soft on these things, sounds like theres an ulterior motive to trying to appease you all and keep this child in school.

I would be extremely concerned about my child attending that school, its not PFB.

Have you another option of school to send him to? Imagine what they would do about "just bullying" if a stabbing is allowed.

PaperView Fri 17-Jun-11 18:04:15

So a pupil in his final year at a school your child doesn't go to is involved in something that is none of your business and yet you feel you should know all the details of what has gone on?

Birdsgottafly Fri 17-Jun-11 18:09:15

He may be being kept in at lunchtime so intervention can take place. The team usually starts off with opening general counselling sessions and moves on to anger management etc. The child may also be going through a diagnostic for other problems. Although i do find that there is not enough help for children in regards to anger management etc. This (if he isn't getting intervention) pays lip service to the problem so money doesn't have to be invested in services and who cares if the bill has to get picked up by the prison service and costs the country twice as much?

Exclusions solve nothing, these are usually children who are failing under the school system anyway.

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