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To think if God does exist, he's a bit of a bastard?

(105 Posts)
toptramp Tue 14-Jun-11 15:50:27

I am especially interested to hear from any Christians. I am not a Christian but I would describe myself as a spiritual person. I don't know if there is an after life, nor do I care. In fact if nothing happens to me when I die it would be a relief.
Some of you may have read my threads about how my mother is dying of cancer. The suffering is awful even though the pain is managed, it is hard to watch someone die and loose all her faculties. Also she is very young. How do you Christian folk justify the suffering, unfairness and pain that goes on in the world such as famine, children dying etc? I am searching for answers but I just cannot find any comfort at the moment.

izzybiz Tue 14-Jun-11 15:58:37

YANBU
I totally understand where you're coming from.
My 19 month old niece going from a perfectly healthy child to death in 2 weeks was enough for me to lose any faith in anything that may be out there.

One of my dearest friends has terminal cancer at the age of 33, she has two young children. She already had her firstborn Dd die of cot death sad

So sorry for what you and your family must be going through.

I'd be interested in some answers too.

Northernlurker Tue 14-Jun-11 16:01:23

I believe in a loving God but that doesn't mean the world is supposed to be an easy or universally benevolent place. I agree it is very hard to accept that. As a practicing Christian I pray about many things - but my prayer don't come with a guarantee that everything will work out as I want it to. When my bil was dying (cancer) I found it impossible to pray. Not because I was angry with God - although I certainly wasn't too happy and not because I didn't have faith in his power to intervene because I do, I do. Rather it was because it just seemed too hard to talk to Him about it because I accepted that bil was dying and yet I could not believe it. It's very hard to explain. What is even harder to explain is the powerful feeling I had two days before bil died that God was here with me, had been all along and had been listening - even when I thought I wasn't praying I think maybe I was. Faith is proceeding in a belief of things unseen and uncountable. For me it is at the very centre of my being and I can't explain exactly how strong that root goes. I see hard and terrible things in the world and I do ask - 'why' and 'how' - but nothing in that seperates me from the love of God. As a Christian I believe that Jesus Christ died for me. Right here - just as I am and will ever be. In all my failings, in all my daftness and sin - He died for me.
That's the rock on which my life is built but that doesn't mean I am spared any unhappiness or anxiety or grief and I've seen that this year more than ever. I'm sure to non-believers that seems utterly crazy. Well that's how it will have to seem grin

shesparkles Tue 14-Jun-11 16:04:16

I've never questioned my beliefs as much as I have since my mum was diagnosed with, and subsequently died from alzheimer's disease

toptramp Tue 14-Jun-11 16:06:27

That's awful izzybiz. So sorry for your friend. That really is shit.
For me I'm not so much interested in what happens when I die because quite frankly I don't give a toss, but what bothers me is what happens in THIS life. Why do some people have more luck than others?
I am reading the Tibetan book of living and dying which is helping as I am a bhuddist BUT I don't think I will ever get over the great sense of unfairness and I cannot believe that it is down to Karma. Bhuddists believe taht bad things happen due to bad deeds but there are plenty of awful and evil peopel in the world who live to be very old and die in their sleep. How is this right.

It's not really just down to survival of the fittest is it?

I would describe myself as spiritual. This is going to sound really woo but a few days before getting mum's terminal cancer diagnosis a black cat kept coming right inside my house. I had never seen it before and I havn't seen it since. My dp at the time said it was a sign of bad luck. i thought ''don't be silly'' and a few days later we got the bad news. Wierd coincidence.

toptramp Tue 14-Jun-11 16:07:58

Sorry to hear of your loss Northern. I do feel that faith does give people the strength to endure the unendurable. I just need to find that faith from somewhere but it is just too much for me to get my head around.

sausagesandmarmelade Tue 14-Jun-11 16:09:07

It's a common question....

If God existed then why would he allow pain and suffering etc

But there are 2 forces in this world...why do people blame God?

The world was created perfect...but it was tainted by sin...and now it isn't perfect anymore.

Terrible things happen...and I can honestly say that when these things have happened they have drawn me closer to God. They make me realise how dependent on him I really am...how much I need him.

toptramp Tue 14-Jun-11 16:09:52

Northern ; even though this has been a dreadful time I have felt a greater sense of love not only for mum and my family but for people in general. i can see how precious life is and how it should be cherished. i can also see that our bodies are fragile and if we cling on to them too much we suffer more if that makes sense?

SeaShellsHasSandInHerShoes Tue 14-Jun-11 16:11:00

You will get the tapestry metaphor in response (I know I have)-basically we are can see the back, with all the knots and tassels, god is onthe other side, seeing the whole, beautiful picture.

Or something like that.

Personally, I think it is really shit and I really feel for you and your family sad

toptramp Tue 14-Jun-11 16:12:58

I suppose I do feel closer to a higher power but I still feel that the world is unjust. My mum is not perfect but why is it fair that she is dying of cancer for eg, being a non-smoking, non-drinking, hard-working, caring , baptist than for example all the bad people out there who are having a ball. (presumably) Having said that, I would not wish cancer on my greatest enemy. I wouldn't wish anyone taht disease; good or bad.

SeaShellsHasSandInHerShoes Tue 14-Jun-11 16:13:52

Sin? What sin did anyone commit to deserve some of these stories? Eat an apple?

toptramp Tue 14-Jun-11 16:14:13

My mum herself says she believes in god and she is ready to go but she is bloody angry she has to go so soon.

toptramp Tue 14-Jun-11 16:15:25

I am aware that I have opened a can of worms but it is a just can of worms I feel , and intentional as I think that these things should be debated.

MollysChamber Tue 14-Jun-11 16:16:22

On the flipside I know many people who have found comfort in (a new found) faith following the death of a loved one.

Also many who have turned to God while suffering from a terminal illness.

Personally, though this isn't something I would say in real life as I know it's controversial, I think that's what faith is for. A man-made invention to comfort those who need it.

I may change my mind on that but that's how I see it right now.

MollysChamber Tue 14-Jun-11 16:17:07

So sorry about your Mum btw.

I can understand your anger completely.

It isn't fair.

justkeepingheadabovewater Tue 14-Jun-11 16:17:17

I have been through two miscarriages, and then watched my newborn son fight to survive.

I believe that his recovery was thanks to a lot of people praying very hard. Therefore the doctors and nurses made the right decisions on diagnosis, treatment, medication, and all round care. God was definitely at work, because we were told how rare it was for a baby in his condition to firstly survive, and secondly to be as active and developed as he is now a year on.

At the time, I was in shock, but I never 'blamed' God. A book someone gave me after my second miscarriage kind of helped me understand. We are given free will, and because the world is a 'sinful' place bad things happen. To both 'good' people and 'bad' people because we are all the same in God's eyes. he loves us, but knows that we will often choose to do the 'wrong' thing.

He hates to see us suffer, but free will is just that. We decide for ourselves. And as the world has evil in it too, these things are trying hard to win us round, to the other side.

When people we love are suffering we feel frustration, anger and guilt. But God has always been there for me and even if the answer to the prayer is 'No' or 'not yet' I know he is listening. It's just that sometimes I don't want to listen to Him. smile
Sorry if that is a bit rambling, was just trying to think aloud.

Meglet Tue 14-Jun-11 16:18:04

I think he's not paying attention. Probably on FB or something while he's meant to be working.

I go to church sometimes but am not sure what I make of it all tbh.

sausagesandmarmelade Tue 14-Jun-11 16:18:53

Life is not fair...there's no doubt about it.

When I've had health problems...and been really upset by them I've thought (sometimes) "what more right to health do I have than others" (sick babies, children, teens that get killed etc etc)

When my FIL dissapeared for nearly 4 agonisingly long weeks and was found dead (he had early alzheimers but there had been no previous signs) last year...that wasn't fair, it was an impossible time.

When a young family member of mine got diagnosed with a very serious disease last year...well that wasn't fair either!

Life can be very cruel....but I don't blame God.
He gave us the strength to carry on...and he listened to and most definitely answered our prayers.

MollysChamber Tue 14-Jun-11 16:19:30

Meglet how very dare you!

He's mning surely?

Facebook tsk!

Sorry about your mum..... felt exactly the same when I was losing/lost my mum to cancer. I asked my religious neighbour the exact question.....the sort of answer I got that my mum was paying for the sins of humans - same as sausages answer I think.

If there's a god up there yes he is a cruel sod at times!!! My mum never hurt a fly and spent her life doing good for others.......!

travellingwilbury Tue 14-Jun-11 16:20:04

I really can't accept that there is one force making such decisions about our lives .

It is ridiculously shite at times and marvellously brilliant at other times . At neither stage have I blamed or thanked someone .

I don't think we don't matter enough in the grand scheme of things .

I also don't believe in the power of prayer as that would mean a being making decisions on billions at any one time .

I do however have to believe that this is not the only type of life I will ever know .

No idea what all this makes me .

SarahBumBarer Tue 14-Jun-11 16:20:57

Yes sausages - but what about all the prayers of people who go unanswered.

If there is a God, then he's a sociopath.

travellingwilbury Tue 14-Jun-11 16:21:10

We don't matter should read without the don't .

Maybe my inner conscience is trying to tell me something wink

sausagesandmarmelade Tue 14-Jun-11 16:22:45

the sort of answer I got that my mum was paying for the sins of humans - same as sausages answer I think.

Cheap shot...and not what I said AT all!

AnnieLobeseder Tue 14-Jun-11 16:23:53

Here's my view on the Christian god. Christians, particularly the born-again variety, are of the opinion that you need to accept Jesus as lord and saviour in order to get into heaven, no matter how good a life you've lived. So good, moral, upstanding, selfless non-Christian folk are condemned to eternal suffering. That in itself is abhorrent to me.

Then the Christians will tell you that this is perfectly fair, because everyone has a chance to accept Jesus, so it's free will, and if you choose not to accept Jesus, well, you make your bed, you lie in it.

But how is this free will, exactly? It's like being presented with a bar full of tasty drinks, and the barman tells you to choose whichever one you like. Then he tells you they're all poisoned except one. But really, choose any one you like! How is that free will, exactly?

Life isn't fair, sadly. Awful things happen to good people, like your mum. And awful, awful people seem too often to live the good life.

How anyone can imagine a god in all that chaos is beyond me.

I have never felt a greater peace than the day I eliminated god from my life.

So sorry about your mum. We lost DH's mum last year after an incredibly brave fight. I'm devastated that my DDs will never know how amazing she was.

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