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To ask you what you would do?

(26 Posts)
nameymcnamechanger Tue 07-Jun-11 15:11:38

OK maybe this is WWYD but as everyone knows AIBU is where the action is...

ds was in hospital for a prolonged time, very early on he was accidentally given about 6 times the usual dose of a drug that he wasn't prescribed (yes you read that right!)
when this came to light the response of the nurse who gave it was to write in his notes that she was concerned he was at risk of neglect (by me!)

I find this very troubling and would like to get it changed.

Obv. the best thing as far as I'm concerned would be to have the notes altered to state that this was written by the person who had given the overdose when she was found out but realistically that isn't going to happen is it?

so what would you do complain to the hospital (I have little faith in them obv.) complain to the nursing council?

thanks

Snuppeline Tue 07-Jun-11 15:20:33

I would get legal representation first off. I'd want to make sure acomplaint to hospital and nursing council (I'm pretty sure I'd complain to both) was done correct and taken seriously by the hospital etc. Also because you want to make sure the right persons are communicated with. I'm pretty sure it would be no point talking to the manager of the nurse in question so go right to the top.

I'm surprised there weren't other procedures to follow if a large overdose of medication not even prescribed to the child was given. In other words, the nurse just making a note on file sounds like a breach of some sort of proper hospital procedure (surely they have some medication error procedure in place?). And if she really did think you had given the medication why hasn't she taken that up with SS, police or hospital management?

Lots of things to question but I would get a solicitor who have experience of medical error cases to get in touch (who should now common hospital procedures, presedence set in law etc). I would not speak to own GP yet but would consider doing so if solicitor deems appropriate (i.e. get it on file that you took your son to GP to ensure no long lasting negative effects were present after the overdose and also to get a note on his file that he was given the overdose by the nurse).

Puh what a muddle!

Amirasmummy Tue 07-Jun-11 15:21:17

Well firstly I am very shocked and I can't quite imagine why once the overdose came to light the nurse concerned was allowed anywhere near yout DS, to write notes or otherwise! Next steps I think would be the hospital PALS (patient advice and liason service i think) and they should be able to take you through your rights and the complaints proceedure... I think you go right up to talking to chief exec within the hosp before going outside, but i could be wrong. good luck!!!

AgentZigzag Tue 07-Jun-11 15:21:45

So a nurse gave your DS 6 times over the amount of a drug he was having?

I'd be complaining to anyone and everyone!

How did you find out about the wrong dosage?

Where is it logged?

What I mean is what evidence do you have that this happened?

cjel Tue 07-Jun-11 15:22:21

I really don't know what you are supposed to do in a situation like this but the first thought that popped into my head was to drop a line to my MP to start the ball rolling. They should know correct complaint procedure to ensure it gets the right response.hope ds is ok now.xx

valiumredhead Tue 07-Jun-11 15:23:15

Did you not complain to the Sister in charge of the ward when it happened? Why was the nurse allowed to write on your notes after such a fuck up? confused

nameymcnamechanger Tue 07-Jun-11 15:31:43

OK some answers

A serious adverse incident form was filled in we were promised that we would hear the outcome, we didn't expect to, we have heard nothing.
The sister on the ward was aware I assume that they have dealt with it internally!!
My son was in for 5 months unfortunately for us (and them) this was done in the first week so your comments re GP etc are good ones but not appropriate IYSWIM

to be clear she didn't accuse me of giving the drug (it was via a drip) but wrote about neglect.

Don't really want to go through PALS but now you mention it (thanks Amirasmummy) maybe this would be right for them

good point as to why the nurse was allowed near my son

the evidence is I suppose the adverse event form (I am trying to remember what was said in the notes but I just can't sorry)
the wrong dose came out because she (nurse) told the doc in front of us 'I've done x' and the doc blurted out 'what that's .......'

nameymcnamechanger Tue 07-Jun-11 15:39:49

the way I see it there are 2 issues
1) what the hospital was like TBH they were a lousy crock of shit and I will probably deal with that in another way

2) what this particular nurse wrote in my dcs notes

it really bothers me that he might read it and think it might be true
has anyone ever got something added/altered successfully in their childs notes?
I'm trying to separate my feelings about my child and work out whether a complaint to the nursing council would be out of proportion

thighslapper Tue 07-Jun-11 15:49:41

Find out if that hospital has a PALS dept. Most do....

They are FANTASTIC and will get everything that you need very quickly.
They will guide you down the complaint route and will be your independant and helpful link to the hospital system.

Thing to do right now is to:
Carefully and accurately write every thing down, including dates and times of events.
Document the full names of the staff involved, conversations that you had with these individuals.
Enquire about the "critical incident" reporting process within the hospital. Due to Governance, this will HAVE to have been reported and acted upon. This is a very serious error that absolutely cannot be brushed under the carpet.
Ask to see the ward manager, make an appointment with that individual to highlight that you are absolutely not happy and want to know what is beong done.
Make clear your disgust at the comments about your child being "at risk" int he notes, you want to know what are the foundations for this allegation?

While i understand your anger, you really need to keep a lid on it in order to get the information that you need. This is likely to be a very long process, you cannot maintain high levels of anger for the duration...sometimes months and months, years even.

I hope that this is uselful, dont loose hope, you will get to the bottom of this, be prepared for frustrating waits though.

thighslapper Tue 07-Jun-11 15:53:35

Seriously PALS they are there for you and they know the procedures intimately.
They have internal links and can recommend and make contact with the key people very quickly for you.
They work FOR YOU NOT the hospital.
They were utterly FABULOUS for me, i cannot recomend them highly enough.

nameymcnamechanger Tue 07-Jun-11 16:15:13

I have an A4 sized book where the whole f^&%$£g 5 months is documented, I havn't been able to read it though....

Thing is though thigh when you say brushed under the carpet what do you mean they did it, and now what? this is what I'm not sure about, what am I expecting?
I think I'm expecting nothing but I want the notes changed....

the foundations for the allegation were eg that when I went for breakfast I would spend sometimes over 1 hour away from my baby

(to put this into context I'm a polite middle class kind of gal and to get breakfast we had to leave the ward and then ring a bell to get back in, I would go for breakfast and take the chance to get some fresh air and call my family to update them/speak to my husband and other children rather than ring the bell and be in and out every 5 mins disturbing the nurses who I assumed would have obs and checks etc to do in the mornings)

nameymcnamechanger Tue 07-Jun-11 16:16:01

if it's not too nosy what did PALS achieve for you?

Happylander Tue 07-Jun-11 16:49:20

When I was a student a nurse made a serious drug error that had some serious consequences for the baby. She was immediately taken off single signing for drugs and had to have all the meds she was giving double checked and was not allowed near the patient. I am not sure what happened after that but my point is that I can't believe they allowed a nurse that had given a huge drug error to carry on looking after your child.
I would definitely contact PALS as they can tell you what action was taken against the nurse by the hospital e.g. extra training etc. I am not sure you can do anything to change what was written in the notes but you can be ask for those comments to be backed up by facts and if incorrect I think you can have a statement put into notes saying so. Was her allegation of neglect looked into properly and if so this would have been written into the notes that no evidence of neglect was found etc
However, you can also contact the Nursing and Midwifery Council and complain to them and they will look into this for you. Personally as you have not had much feedback or support from the ward at the time this is the route I would go down as you are more likely to get honest information this way. It takes a long time so do as others have said before, write everything down as you remember it happening with times if possible and names. I complained about the care I was given by a Dr when having my child in November 09 to the GMC in Jan 10 and I have only now started to hear from them and the actual hearing for his 'fitness to practice' is not until October this year. So it is a long process.
Was your son harmed by this drug and if so in what way? Has this affected you?
This charity here www.avma.org.uk/ will give you good advice and put you in touch with the right solicitor to handle your case. They were brilliant at putting me in touch with a good solicitor and not some crap one off the tele. I'm suing the Dr's arse off!

ooohyouareawfulbutilikeyou Tue 07-Jun-11 16:57:29

think there is more to this than being said

is spending an hour outside signs of neglect? not as far as i know

shandyleer Tue 07-Jun-11 17:10:37

That's awful, sorry you and your son have had to endure this. I think the remark about spending too much time away from him is outrageous too.

I absolutely second what thighslapperhas said - get in touch with PALS. I think if you try to do anything internally you will receive polite apologies and soothing words and not much else really.

As far as the notes are concerned - Dh altered his once in a state of absolute exasperation. They didn't like it, and I guess if they'd known he was going to do it they would've kept a closer eye on them. I can't remember the details exactly now, he's actually in hospital at the moment so when I next see/speak to him I'll try to remember to ask him.

Good luck and like others have said, be patient, keep calm and don't give up.

AgentZigzag Tue 07-Jun-11 17:16:03

Good for you documenting it.

I can totally understand you don't want to read it again, but I think in this case the sooner you make a complaint the better.

Not only will it be easier to investigate if it wasn't that long ago, but the person who gave the overdose will still be working and needs asking about it.

With the 'neglect' accusation, it's almost as though they're holding it over you to keep quiet, if anything that would make me shout all the louder.

Don't let them get away with it, I trust the NHS and the lovely people working there, but with so many working in just one hospital, there are bound to be 'mistakes' in a place where they shouldn't be brushed under the carpet.

It must have been, and still is, such a traumatic time in your lives, but it sounds like it's playing on your mind.

AgentZigzag Tue 07-Jun-11 17:19:08

Also, another thing that's struck me about your posts is how little expectation you have of any justice.

Understandable given what you've been through, but you need to expect someone to listen and take your situation seriously, and to get that across to them in the way you talk about it IYSWIM.

ashamedandconfused Tue 07-Jun-11 17:22:38

I find it astounding that the nurse could do this and be allowed to carry on working as normal, even with the same patient/family!!!!

Birdsgottafly Tue 07-Jun-11 18:49:34

PALS is there for situations such as this, you are choosing not to use them and are then surprised when nothing is done.

You need to bring up the 'neglect' issue, if she had concerns they should not have been writtrn in the notes but taken to a senior to be reported to the safeguarding person., so she has carried out that proceduer wrong. I would assume that is so when you make a complaint she can say her notes promted it.

Birdsgottafly Tue 07-Jun-11 18:51:14

TBH it annoys me when the public choose not to use the 'system' and then complains when the 'system' doesn't work.

nameymcnamechanger Wed 08-Jun-11 00:38:48

thanks everyone

to be absolutely clear there was never and will never be a justified accusation of neglect concerning me and my children
they are the light of my life, I adore them and would give my own life for them it goes without saying that they are fed, nurtured in every way physically, emotionally and intelluctually come on they don't even eat raisins and juice at the same time because of their teeth I am that concerned with their health, they have a bedtime story every night, I take them to the beach etc etc etc. The idea is so ridiculous it would never see the light of day were it actually raised.

why ohyouareawful can you not have a serious conversation about something? why do you think you know better about the situation when you weren't there? what on earth makes you think from what I said that I am neglecting my children? I have clearly namechanged for this (the clue is in my name could I be more clear?)

to be clear about what happened

nurse X overdosed my child then to cover her own arse wrote in the notes in the handover bit of nurse writing that she had some concerns, it was a crass and stupid attempt to deflect attention away from herself, it spectacularly failed, not that the staff there would have the first clue but the comment was never even relayed to me it was so clear in it's intention TBH I would think that had the staff been more thoughtful they would have had words with her about the stupidity of making that comment and would wish it wasn't there themselves.
I only know about the comment because I read the notes when we were in x ray.

Child abuse/neglect is such a serious matter it hardly does a paediatric hospital credit to use it in such a fashion

Shandy I hope your husband gets better and home soon-difficult times. I love the idea of him writing in his own notes. I was sorely tempted at the time but I didn't want them to know that I was reading them IYSWIM

Agent you're right I think I have a teeny bit of PTSD about it all (I say a teeny bit not to devalue the very genuine issue in people like those in the forces IYSWIM I am aware how unhelpful it can be and be perceived to be to have such issues taken lightly) it was unbelievably awful in it's awfulness the whole time it felt like a car crash waiting to happen IYSWIM

I am interested in how many of you are surprised that she carried on dealing with ds, on reflection I think it was because the ward was badly led and poorly staffed, she did stay away from us for a few days after that but came back again soon after.

Birds and agent you're right I do have very little expectation of anything happening, I have asked on here because I need an impartial opinion re my need to protect my child and my need for something to happen. I don't want my need to protect to make me take a disproportionate action (very clumsily written sorry) hence me asking what would you do?

thanks all

Checkmate Wed 08-Jun-11 01:02:31

I think the answer to what would we all do, is pursue a complaint by going through the PALS service. Is that what you intend to do?

Checkmate Wed 08-Jun-11 01:05:04

Don't mean to sound harsh by the way, I've had a child in hospital long term and it took me years to get over it, it as such a tough time. I do urge you to flow up the complaint through the proper channels, if you feel you have the
Emotional strength to do so.

nameymcnamechanger Wed 08-Jun-11 01:20:01

I'm thinking I will PALS to see if I can get the notes added to
I am still thinking about nursing council for nurse but it hasn't come up on here much so prob. not

Amirasmummy Wed 08-Jun-11 06:22:53

BTW your comments suggest you're worried about having read the notes or feel like you shouldn't have, but actually just to reassure you, you have every right to read them! good luck

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