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TO POINT OUT Todays news. Dav Cameron thinks we dont trust the TORIES with the NHS. I suspect the PM is right about that.

(45 Posts)
ScousyFogarty Tue 07-Jun-11 09:30:13

The Tories opposed the NHS at its conception. People think they are trying to privatise it by the back door. (Its a well known Tory trick)

Do you mumsnetters trust Cameron and the rather puzzled Lansley with the NHS? The Minister of Health does NOT seem to understand his own plan.

And many people seem to distrust the bits they do understand.

cornsilks Tue 07-Jun-11 09:31:01

Of course I don't trust them - they're tories

ScousyFogarty Tue 07-Jun-11 09:35:39

cornsilks. Yes, the Tories have a history of not being trustworthy on things that matter to the bulk of the population

And the NHS is a very big issue. Cameron is making 5 pleadges today. Read them with great suspicion.

I dont think his major NHS refprms were actually in the Tory manifesto.

GeekCool Tue 07-Jun-11 09:37:23

No I don't trust them with the NHS. Not sure who I would trust, but it would be many, many people before a Tory.

backwardpossom Tue 07-Jun-11 09:38:57

No, I don't trust the Tories with the NHS.

Yukana Tue 07-Jun-11 09:40:52

I've read multiple articles and such of the Torie's plans with the NHS. Both before and after I read them, I didn't trust them. I don't trust David Cameron, period.

ada07 Tue 07-Jun-11 09:41:27

Scousy Unfortunately, I think that some of the NHS reforms being foisted on us were in the Tory manifesto - 3 lines hidden on page 129 or something?

Won't be reading the 5 pledges - it's all spin and PR. And that much abused concept 'consultation'.

ScousyFogarty Tue 07-Jun-11 09:42:14

Geekcool....fair comment Geek. What Cameron has become is expert at using the media. (Including the BBC) His media jaunt today is only a trailer for what he says next week. The BBC should question him hard. The TODAY programme does. NEWSNIGHT on TV does.

But I think BBC Radio 5-Live lets the Tory Coalition off very lightly. (And I am an experience listener over many years)

So keep em peeled when Dave "Calm Down" Cameron talks NHS

cantspel Tue 07-Jun-11 09:43:09

Having a father who sat on a waiting list in constant pain waiting for a hip replacement whilst labour were in power and is now to infirm to have the op i am quite prepared to give the tories a chance to reform the system.

What we have isn't working so something has to be done.
The system is full of delays and waste.

example when his hip first started to really get bad he goes to the doctors who then refer him to the hospital, who then refers him to someone else within the hospital, who then refers him to someone else for a MMR. He has the MMR and we are told to make an appointment for 2 weeks after it to get the results. We do only for the results not to be back and we wait for another month for an appointment with the results. You then go on the waiting list which is over 12 months long but you have already spent 6 months getting to this point. Waste and delay until it is too late. Maybe they are just hoping you will die off before they have to really do anything.

So Yes i will give the tory reform a chance as it cant get any worse.

ScousyFogarty Tue 07-Jun-11 09:46:45

Yukana and adao7 points taken. The only thing cameron is good at is his use of the media. (he deserves to have that on his political gravestone)

DAVE CAMERON...Good at spin. RIP

Seriously this NHS thing need watching. Because some people at ground level say the so called "PAUSE" is not a pause at all. Its full steam ahead.

ada07 Tue 07-Jun-11 09:47:46

I'm really sorry to hear about your father's dreadful experience.

Sadly, waiting times have been increasing again since the Coalition came to power last year. The last time that this happened was in the 1980's and 90's when the Tories were in power before.

mouseanon Tue 07-Jun-11 09:50:51

Waiting times were far worse the last time the Tories were in power. I know they weren't great still, but they were better under labour.

cantspel Tue 07-Jun-11 09:57:36

Of course waiting times are still going up as the system has'nt changed yet.
We have a lot more demands on the NHS then the 80's and early 90's and so it needs to change. It needs to streamline and get rid of the waste.

GP's have no real power anymore and just refer to hospitals who then refer to the more relevant dept of the hospital.
The doctor knew my father needed an MMR but couldn't refer him directly for that MMR and so 2 more appointment with the long waits between were needed.
Under the reforms the GP would be able to refer directly for the MMR and this would have taken away at least 3 months of waiting. It will also free up the consultants time so they can get on with the operations.

ScousyFogarty Tue 07-Jun-11 10:02:35

Cantspel I tend to think CONSULTANTS in the NHS are a law unto themselves and that is not likely to change....(The staff call them sir...I dont know what they call the women consultants.)

My wife was a nurse for 30 years. She has views I will ask her and tell you,

loo Tue 07-Jun-11 10:08:10

I don't trust any of them with the NHS. How often do any of them make useful, cost-saving but life-saving decisions that help the NHS? My fear is that they whoever is in power, will continue to run it down because they don't have to use it but if they are not in the same position as joe bloggs.

ada07 Tue 07-Jun-11 10:09:26

I'm an NHS consultant, Scousy! No-one has ever called me 'Sir' confused Patients call me ada. I think that's a very outdated stereotype.

And as for 'a rule unto themselves'. I think you would be very surprised by the micro-management of consultants by NHS management.

cantspel Tue 07-Jun-11 10:12:24

scousy but you dont need a consultant to tell you if you need an MMR. It is a complete waste of their and their registrars time.
You should only see them when you have the MMR and you are ready to decide the next step i.e. operate or not. And hopefully the appointment for them wouldn't be booked until the results were back.
It is a complete waste to be told to make an appointment and them find the results are not ready. Why dont they just altermatically give out an appointment as the results are done rather than make the patient ring after a set period of time? Over half the people on that afternoon were sent away again as results were not ready. How much did that cost the `NHS?

ada07 Tue 07-Jun-11 10:17:26

I'm afraid MRIs are expensive, cantspel and it will be the consultant who is answerable to management not a junior doctor.

Fifichef Tue 07-Jun-11 10:20:38

We HAVE to trust them, whatever we think, the NHS is in a shxx and needs radical reorganisation and it needs doing now. Both parties have wanted to do it for years and haven't had the balls. I'm living in hope that they manage to sort something out. They are trying to hurry things along because 1. it is urgent and 2. it should be done within the years of this government.

PigletJohn Tue 07-Jun-11 10:31:40

"We HAVE to trust them, whatever we think"

hmm

wrong

cantspel Tue 07-Jun-11 10:34:46

ada yes they are expensive but we would be able to afford more of them with the savings made by not having so many wasted hospital appointment before someone actually gets one.
Surely a GP can be trusted to know if someone who is riddled with arthritis needs a MMR?

slug Tue 07-Jun-11 10:34:51

Ben Goldacre tweeted about this only this morning. Coupled with the request that Doctors will be asked (much like teachers) to identify people 'vulnerable to being drawn into terrorism', he said "Managing the biggest government budget and policing terrorists. My theory is the govt don't actually know what a doctor is".

GeekCool Tue 07-Jun-11 10:41:14

I'll be watching with interest. As I'm in Scotland it won't directly impact me (we have our Saviour, the Lord Alex Salmond hmm ) but I would hate to see the NHS privatised quietly.

RunnerHasbeen Tue 07-Jun-11 10:42:51

I don't understand the logical jump from "something needs to improve in X area" to "lets go with these plans." To me it is like saying a cake needs something extra and agreeing that mouse droppings would do.

I don't trust them because they put some sort of unproven ideology before the evidence, they could do pilots and trials if they wanted to win our trust and perfect the reforms but it isn't important enough to them. They can't even coherently assess outcomes in ways other than financial and have shown no ability to try to. They have links to private companies that will profit from the reforms and have abolished all the groups that measure health outcomes in case they point out when things are getting worse.

petitepeach Tue 07-Jun-11 10:47:20

Sorry, but we have to give this government a chance....
Are you trying to tell us the last labour governmnet with all their previous YEARS in power were fantastic for the NHS and everything else??
Milliband has even admitted to some of the mess that labour left behind....
This is how it seems to go in this country - vote labour in watch as the country falls apart - everyone wake up to the fact and votes in the conservatives who have to spend the majority of their term trying to undo the mess that was left for them...because this takes AGES and gets worse before we can reap the benefits people start moaning....
Labour left this country on its knees....
I am waiting with interest to see some big changes for the better...
Before everyone starts - this is my opinion and I am entitled to it...grin

The thought of Wallace and Grommit running the country makes me very, very angry

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