to think that mn has gone mad with many posters assuming most woman are choosing to be subservient to men.

[tomhardyismydh]

It seems lately that on MN many posters are taking things to far with this attitude.

This is about many threads to many to mention but it riles me, just because a woman cant drive, might like a bit of kinky spanking, laugh at a joke made by a man or want to call an ambulance in an emergency that it is a slur and disservice to all of woman kind.

I feel this kind of attitude I have come across on does more damage to woman kind in assuming we are second class citizens to men and that we will never have an equal footing in society. I have lived with men, grown up with men, worked with men and socialized with men and have not felt any more put down degraded or second class to men any more than some woman I have lived with worked with or socialized with.

why do we need the constant reminder men are bad, sex is degrading and woman are so woe betided.

just a rant mostly and will accept the flaming

[Tambern]

I think it's more along the lines of being aware how certain behaviour is perceived. It doesn't mean you shouldn't engage in it, enjoy it, or that it's wrong. It does mean that actions do have loaded meanings a lot of the time.

No-one is saying men are bad, sex is degrading, and women are woe betided. Unfortunately the facts are in this forum about half the people posting are doing so with one problem or another, ergo instantly there is a certain section of the population. When it's about your husband only coming in your face, or being mocked for not driving, or an emotionally abusive relationship, there are conclusions rightly or wrongly that are instantly drawn. The damaged side to those behaviours is shown here, rather than the positive sides.

[worraliberty]

OMG I agree with all of that!

It seems to me, there are a lot of women around who are more intimidating to other women with their "I am right..therefore you are wrong and subserviant" attitude than men!

Just because some of us enjoy the fact men and women are different, doesn't make us subserviant. It just means we don't want everyone to morph into A sexual 'non gender specific' people

[saidthespiderwithahorridsmile]

has anyone said that sex is degrading though?

I have said that I think roleplay involving male sexual violence towards women is degrading. That isn't the same as saying that I think all women are doormats or all men are evil and bad

as I said on the other thread, there are enough straw men around here to keep Oklahoma crow-free all summer.

[SarahStratton]

And I will add that I regularly take advantage of the fact that I am blonde, have big norks and look very angelic. All of which can still be used to devastating affect when I want my own way. It's my advantage, Anne u will damn well use it.

[worraliberty]

I have said that I think roleplay involving male sexual violence towards women is degrading

But how is it if that's what the woman specifically asks the man for because it turns her on?

I think some people take their attitudes a step too far when they encroach upon private personal relationships that they know nothing about. To assume anyone is degraded in a private situation between to people in love is quite ignorant imo.

[Tambern]

And it's my opinion that if big norks are the only way you can get your own way then that's a pretty poor outlook for when they head south

[SarahStratton]

Not sure who Anne is, but she can butt out of my posts. Also I have no bloody idea what a straw man is, Oz or not. I have only just grasped the concept of a sock puppet not being something one's 3 year old made at KG.

[tomhardyismydh]

I also agree with you Tambern where it is serious and relevant. however I feel its more damaging to be analytical and draw on the sexes divide too heavily where its not necessary and weakens the cause somewhat. I find it easy to discuss and accept and would always fight the cause in terms of dv, sex crimes etc where it is a problem and very relevant, however find it irrelevant and tiresome when it comes to something petty and when inaccurate assumptions are made about a man or a womans attitude and natural different with no cause to do so.

[AyeRobot]

Wriggle within the patriarchy all you like, it's still men who do the most "disservice" to women.

I love most men, though. Does that mess with your mind?

[AyeRobot]

By love, I mean kind of like. Some men I really love, not most.

[AgentZigzag]

I saw the driving thread and thought that's probably how I look to other people (if they thought along those lines, which they most probably don't).

I don't drive but DH does, the car and everything to do with it is his, if I/DDs need a ride anywhere I'd square it with him first.

I suppose it could look subservient, but in reality it's because I can't stand cars or anything to do with them, I 'ask' him for lifts just out of politeness.

If you add to that that I'm not in paid employment and we have a pretty traditional division of labour, I look a right 1950's wife from the outside

Couldn't give a monkeys bollocks, it's my choice and definately works for me.

[tomhardyismydh]

although relevent to some of your thread saidthespider but not soley a reflection of your opinion. just to clear that up. one mner I have come across in the past does however give the impression sex is degrading with some of her posts.

[NulliusInVerba]

Some people will find sexism in a full stop.

Have to say, only scanned the thread I think you are referring to, and although I dont agree with it all, rape fantisies are fucked up.

[SarahStratton]

I prefer men to women. Men, in my experience are no where near as likely to stab one in the back, bitch or generally be two faced.

[Tambern]

Also SarahStratton it's much harder to use norks to get your way with women

[tomhardyismydh]

not all woman I think many woman quite like norks

[SarahStratton]

No, then I just use my rapier wit and intelligence.

[Tambern]

True, but those women usually have norks of their own and are quite aware of when they're being used as distraction devices in my experience!

[SarahStratton]

AF is going to play with my norks when we have the next meet.

[Pykel]

Ohhh touché tambern

[tomhardyismydh]

joking aside that is also my point, Im confident enough as a person not a gender specific person but a person that I have never and would never feel the need to nor have I ever been expected to use my anatomy to get anywhere or anything in life.

[SarahStratton]

It doesn't bother me. I'm confident and happy with my body. I've got no hang ups about male/female roles and I don't really care what others think.

[Onceamai]

What on earth are you going on about? Of course women are superior to men, we have just learnt that it is easier to keep the upper hand if we let men think they are superior to us - and they are, aren't they? They are bigger and stonger and more intelligent and because they are stupid they go and kill food and let us sit in the cave all comfy and warm and snuggled to the the vulnerable baby and it's grand - lovely to snuggle and feed and nuzzle and cuddle while they are stupid brave enough to do the really important stuff. And if they don't bring back a dead animal we can give them the fed baby and go out and get some berries and leaves and be back in a flash to deal with the poo.

[tomhardyismydh]

onceamai, such a refreshing and real concept.

[TheBride]

More men are into being spanked than women anyway........or so my friends tell me.........