to not understand why anyone would ban Disney?

[ScrotalPantomime]

Thread about a thread about a thread - the debate was getting lost among the main debate so I thought it could continue here... I guess each to their own, if you want to ban it then it's your choice - I admire such tenacity, as I've failed miserably at a Nestle boycott - I'm just a bit as to why.

I understand that Disney is very different from the original stories but I don't see the harm - when they're really little would you want to let them know the darker versions? It is a good 'safe' way of introducing classic stories, and IME children will cope with gradually learning the proper endings.

I totally get that most some Disney things are sexist, but it's not all princesses is it. There's much more to Disney than that. Of course if you expose them exclusively to the princess stuff it will warp their views, and I do frequently introduce my face to my palm when I see all the merchandise, but I don't think it's inevitable if there is balance. You don't have to buy into all the crap.

DD's favourite is Hercules, which I bought for DH as he loved it. She now demands that DH tells her all about the Greek Gods at bedtime. This has led to an interest in the past, so as part of her 4th birthday present we are getting her some books - one of Greek mythology stories, and one about life in Ancient Greece. I'm hoping this will be a good opportunity to then introduce other ancient cultures - Rome, Egypt etc, but right now Greece is the word (geddit?) :o

Other favourite is Fantasia, which I preordered the second I found it on Amazon as I absolutely adored it as a child. Really thought DD as a modern child would be at it but she adores it and sharing it with her has been incredibly special. It built on her love of the Nutcracker (she learnt the music from the Barbie version! ) and thanks to Fantasia 2000 we've also gone onto reading bible stories and the darker version of the tin soldier story. She's been exposed to classical music from babyhood anyway, but Fantasia has really cemented her love for it.

I'm waffling now, but I just wanted to say that I really feel Disney has added a lot to my DD's life - more than other stuff she sometimes watches which just seem so bland. Although - bad mother alert - she does sometimes watch Futurama and is now fascinated by space and time travel...

As I said, each to their own and if you've got a strong enough conviction then fair enough, but I'd like to hear more about why. Enlighten me - I feel there's an interesting debate to be had here :)

[LynetteScavo]

If they don't know Disney exists, they will never nag you to take them to the hell hole that is DisneyLand.

[manicbmc]

I make it my policy to never ban anything as it makes it all the more attractive and so much more difficult to backtrack if necessary. The kids happily watched Disney stuff for a short part of their childhoods but it was never a huge thing anyway. There was never any pressure to buy into the whole merchandise thing.

[MonstaMunch]

Dont know, some people are just plain weird

and I love Disneyland - its not just for kids you know, there are some quite scary rides there :)

[nethunsreject]

I think you've answered your own question really. Sexist, 'safe', etc.

I totally get you though as I have also failed in my Nestle boycotting and ds1 gets the odd milk bar.

Nestle, Disney, Coca Cola, MacDonalds, Wal-mart, they are the axis of evil imo, but pretty unavoidable at times.

[nethunsreject]

oh, yy, ban something and it becomes even more appealing!

[jeee]

I was absolutely adamant that no child of mine would ever be allowed to watch the Little Mermaid - a complete travesty of Hans Christian Anderson's beautiful fairy story. Guess how long that resolution lasted?

DISCLAIMER: I have actively insisted that my children watch Beauty and the Beast. God, he's sexy - though I feel that Belle is somewhat short-changed when he turns into Barbie's Ken at the end.

[MumblingRagDoll]

Some people feel the female characters are too generic. All of the heroines conform to society's idea of beauty today...yes...some are "feisty" (awful word) rather than wet...but they still have the tiny waist, the massive eyes and the petite nose....masses of hair etc....no glasses or other aids...they're not healthy. Not for little girls of whom a minority will conform to the "ideal" of beauty.

[manicbmc]

You reap what you sow. If a kid is fed a constant diet of Disney, MacDonalds, etc then it's limiting their life experiences and, as such, limiting them. Moderation is the key.

[loosingthewilltoo]

i'm totally baffled by this!! disney films are just films so many people go on about protecting there children making them feel equal etc etc blah blah blah but if your leaving these things down to films to teach them ppl are clearly not doing the best for their children

my daughter watches films with us she loves them we talk about them and she laughs at them shes a child. She has her own mind i think theres alot to be said for people who won't let their children do and enjoy things.

There's enough evil in the world bring your children up in balance not blaming disney film!!!

very good debate ScrotalPantomime getting me ranting hahahaha :)

[lesley33]

I read that some American Christians campaign against Disney. One of their main reasons seemed to be because Disney introduced the same employment perks to gay employees partners as for straight employees partners, even though there was no legal requirement for them to. I actually thought more of Disney when I read this.

[manicbmc]

I'm quite sure I grew up with Sindy dolls and Disney films and never ever thought that that was how women were supposed to look. It's a cartoon. If we were that stupid then wouldn't us old buggers think that cats are regularly outwitted by mice and all men should look like action man (with the 'eagle eyes').

[nethunsreject]

Yes, loosing, we shouldn't ever consider anything we do. Let's just all blindly follow the herd.

[Goblinchild]

SP, are you going to let your DD realise that Hera hated Herakles and spent most of her time trying to kill him?
Select your myths carefully!

[nethunsreject]

Nah, Disney treat their staff like shit.

[saffy85]

Nothing wrong with a bit of Disney imo. My 3 year old loves all the ones she's seen and a lot of them if not all, have a good message in them somewhere. I will admit that DD has a lot of the princess merchandise: dolls, dressing up clothes and stuff but I see no harm in indulging in playing with this stuff. You only get to get to be a child once.

I did read the other thread and had a bloody good giggle at the OP and thought at alot of the list of things the OP said she would never do/things she would insist on. You're raisng a child, not holding them prisoner til they're 18.

[MooMooFarm]

How do you 'ban' it exactly? Genuine question.

[manicbmc]

I feel the need to read the other thread for a giggle. Where is it?

[loosingthewilltoo]

hahaahhahahhahahahhhahahahhahahahahahaha there films my DD is well rounded i was bought up on them i'm a independant woman with a very good career and beautiful home and my daughter is enaguraged (that may not be spelt right) to be her own person we have never followed the herd!

but they are films its parents that really encourage there children to act in stupid ways!

[loosingthewilltoo]

saffy85 exactly there children not prisoners

[catwhiskers10]

I think it's nonsense that Disney films (and suchlike) influence children to become little princess divas.
I watched Disney as a child and was a tomboy (still am).
If only Disney was the worst thing children could be exposed to growing up.
I personally can't wait till my DD is old enough to enjoy the Disney cartoons and I will be watching along with her. I also look forward to when she's older so we can go to Disneyland and if she wants to play princesses so what? Imagination and pretend play are a wonderful part of childhood that we don't get to enjoy so much as adults.

[loosingthewilltoo]

catwhiskers10 :)

[troisgarcons]

Some of the original Disney animations contain subliminal anti semetic messages. Mickey Mouse is depicted on one cartoon using a lighter with a swastiker and Donald Duck in one cartoon is dressed us in full nazi regalia. Walt Disney was reputed/known to be a Nazi sympathiser and met Hitler. He also often went to meetings in LA with sympathisers to the cause. He also dressed the wolf in the 3 little pigs as a Jewish peddler.

Mind you like Chaplin - he may well have been poking fun at the regime. But it is fairly well documented he did not like Jews and even owned a news paper which was outrageously anti-semetic, even for the 1930's. He was also vehemently anti-homosexual.

But of course, both were commonly held view points 80 years ago.

There are a lot of cartoons on you-tube - google 'banned disney cartoons' and you will find a lot of them from that era.

O/T In The Rescuers there are two topless women! I guess Disney animators have a sense of 'fun'

[ScrotalPantomime]

Yes I do understand about the Fascism etc, but I don't really see how that could influence children now. A child probably won't even know what a swastika is, or what nazis did, so I don't understand why it could have an effect. Surely to them it'd just be a symbol, and when they were old enough to notice and ask what it was then you could tell them why it was so bad?

I don't really feel comfortable with banning somebody's work just because of what they were like as a person - to me, they are separate (apart from where they directly make money off their criminal ideas, like SparkleBox). I still like Michael Jackson's music even though I'm convinced he was guilty (I know I may be wrong and should accept the verdict, but it's just a feeling), and I don't give a flying wotsit whether Mozart was autistic or had Tourette's. I don't stop watching a film/football match if the actor/player had an affair. I still want to introduce DD to my beloved Famous Five books, even though Enid Blyton was apparently horrible to her children. In a similar but opposite vein, I never understood fanaticism about musicians etc - I'm totally baffled by people who obsessively follow a band and learn everything about the people in it, if I go to a gig it's just to hear the music.

They are mostly trivial examples compared to fascism of course, but I'm just illustrating the fact that to me, the person behind a masterpiece has very little impact on my appreciation of it, so I don't see why I should prevent my DCs from viewing something amazing (IMO) because of who made it.

[LadyOfTheCuntryManor]

Scrotal, I will be teaching my children about WW2, so yes they probably will know what a Nazi is.

Disney is never shown in my house (ds is only 15 months and doesn't watch television) and hopefully it'll stay like that.

Aside from the fascism and racism I have feminist issues with the whole image that Disney attempts to portray.

Each to their own, if you want your children to be subjected to a company that promoted anti-Semitic views, then brilliant, you do that.

[minipie]

No, I wouldn't ban Disney, for the usual reason that if something is banned it becomes more desirable.

I do however think it's mostly incredibly sexist.

I'm not too bothered by the fact that the Disney storylines don't match the original storylines. The original Little Mermaid story ending was truly horrible.