Farmers should not get subsidies

[Kendodd]

I live in the country and know lots of farmers, they are all rich, yet they get thousands of pounds of public money every year, it seems like the richer they are the more they get as well. Fine that they are doing well, good luck to them they work very hard but somebody come on and explain to me why they need a hand out when they live in the sort of houses most of us can only dream of.

Most of them are full time farmers but I do know a couple who are 'hobby' farmers. One DH is a barrister and her 'job' is to fill in the subsidy form, that's why they bought the farm, the other DH works (earn loads, that's how they could afford the house) they have 22 acres and their subsidy pays for their holiday in France every year. Both these families admit it's madness but are not going to turn down free money.

Yes I am jealous before you tell me but I'm also fed up of seeing people in brand new Range Rovers. Rant, rant, rant, sorry.

[Thingumy]

I see people in Brand new range rovers all the time-are they all rich farmers then>?

Lots of council farms are being sold down here so there are families left without a job or a home.

You are being a little judgemental eh?

[Nixea]

Please don't tar all farmers with the same brush. I'm totally willing to believe that some are indeed exactly as you say but then you get that in all walks of life surely?

[nijinsky]

The subsidies are for the land to be managed in a certain way, basically. At least farmers produce stuff, or manage land, and do more than most people in this country who get subsidies. From your post, it sounds more as if you hate a certain make of car, or a certain lifestyle!

I have no problem with people who work hard and are successful at what they do and spend their money on buying their own property.

[Kendodd]

"I see people in Brand new range rovers all the time-are they all rich farmers then"

They are round here, I really don't know anyone else who can afford one.

[MrSpoc]

One subsidie i know and agree with them getting is keeping a hudge bordering thier land. For every meter of hedge they have they got X amount for.
The reason is that the hedges hold and support an aboundance of wild life as well as keeping the countryside picture. Alot of farmers would love to get rid as it would create more space and less hass in trimming the hedges every year.

[MrSpoc]

Sorry hedge. Not sure what a hudge is but i bet they get money for them too

[Kendodd]

I an definitely having a bad day, I admit it, and should get over myself, but even when I am not having a bad day I still don't think farmers should get subsidies.

[BranchingOut]

I don't know much about farming, as a city dweller. But I do know that it is a heck of a lot more complicated than 'filling in the form = subsidies = rich farmer'.

I watched a 'Wife Swap' once where one couple were farmers and the hard, backbreaking labour the husband was doing was incredible. Long, long hours and it never seemed to end. No weekends, no holidays.

I have read articles about farmers living on low incomes and therefore needing to claim benefits etc.

Farmhouses are often big roomy houses, yet they fall under different planning laws. I think that you can't buy and sell as easily, as they have to be taken on by someone willing to keep on farming, as the purpose of the land is designated as agricultural.

[pommedechocolat]

These are not perhaps typical farmers then.
Farming is fucking hard work actually as it happens.

[Vallhala]

Too many generalisations for my liking here.

I do have major, major issues with Welsh farmers who, having been encouraged with grants from the Welsh Assembley to diversify, went on to breed yet more dogs which the country cannot accommodate, many in conditions which are, or are little better than, puppy farms.

Those particular farmers are people I would have no hesitation in shooting with their own guns, given a chance and an amnesty.

[Kendodd]

I have a tree in my garden with a TPO on it, it sheds all over my roof and blocks my drains I'd love to get rid of it but I don't get a subsidy for it. Just put protection orders on hedges.

[GwendolineMaryLacey]

I know feck all about farming but I remember a thread a few months ago where the partners of dairy farmers were posting and they were closing down. Doesn't seem like they are all rich to me.

[Apronlady]

If you think that fine, but you should also expect your food to get a lot more expensive in your ideal no subsidy no Landrover no farmer world.

[nijinsky]

Imagine though if you got rid of farmers via removing subsidies, and most farms were run by Tesco etc instead...

[Thingumy]

hobby farmers are completely different to those that rear livestock or arable farmers.

It's a 24/7 job and a hard and arduous one at that.

I know someone who farms over 1,000 acres and he doesn't drive the latest 4 x4.

[Kendodd]

"Farmhouses are often big roomy houses, yet they fall under different planning laws. I think that you can't buy and sell as easily, as they have to be taken on by someone willing to keep on farming, as the purpose of the land is designated as agricultural."

These farmhouses with a AO are also about 35% less than they would be, oh but I couldn't just buy one, no you have to be a farmer already for at least, I don't know how many years. Very often these houses are lovely big five bed detached places, with no land other than a garden! Have a look for yourself.

[Nixea]

"Imagine though if you got rid of farmers via removing subsidies, and most farms were run by Tesco etc instead..."

It's actually quite scary how often that actually ends up being pretty close to the truth. Although they might not own the farm as such, they can certainly end up owning the farmer.

[Thingumy]

Maybe you should become a farmer then OP.

[Kendodd]

They should get rid of subsidies and pay farmers a good price for what they produce, this price could be maintained by introducing trade barriers to stop us importing things like lamb.

[Kendodd]

"Maybe you should become a farmer then OP."

Please see above post about AO.

[Thingumy]

You weren't talking about that in your OP.

You were banging on about big houses and a 4x4's.

[pommedechocolat]

Yes because we have the climate to produce such a great variety of produce in Britain. We never have huge holes in UK production due to the weather do we?
Imports aren't evil and farming is shit.

[GentleOtter]

Some farming is not all glamour, big houses, 4x4s and subsidies, OP. Sometimes it is a bit bloody awful, to be honest.

The subsidy has to cover everything - our food, house repairs, feed for cattle, diesel, land management, crops, fencing, ditches, vet bills, farm bills, fuel for the house etc.
On the smaller farm, it does not go far.

[Ariesgirl]

Oh honestly

I think you are displaying some rather unattractive envy here OP. Many farmers have had their large houses in their families for generations, which is the only reason they can afford them. I live near many farms and at this time of year they are working all the hours God sends, just to try and make a living. Because people and therefore supermarkets insist on cheap prices they have to work even harder, and if they don't receive subsidies then they could go under. It is a way of ensuring that British farms survive, and sooner or later this will become immensely important as peak oil will mean that we cannot import anything like the amount of food we do at the moment. What would you rather was on the food-producing land instead?

In certain parts of the country, yes there are "gentleman farmers" with their posh 4by4s and large houses. But here in west Cornwall they usually drive clapped out old land rovers which they need to haul trailers and negotiate muddy fields, and this is the same in most farming areas of the country. I think it's about time people like you started respecting those who do a very hard job.

[MoreBeta]

As an ex farmer you may be surprised to hear that I AGREE with you that farms should not get subsidies. It actualy does little to help small/medium sized family farms and it is the agri business firms and 'hobby' farms that hoover up the majority of the subsidies. The large farms are now often owned by City people or other wealthy people who buy them only for tax reasons. These people are not your traditional family farmers who still are mostly struggling to make enough money to support 2/3 generations of a family on a single unit. I dont know any wealthy family farmers but plenty of wealthy people who own farms and plenty of 'hobby' farmers.

I left farming at age 22 because I knew that the family farm I grew up on could never support me and my intended wife as well as my father and mother. The last ever proper job I ever did on a farm was sititng on a tractor seat for 8 hours planting 40 acres of winter wheat. Just to weeks later I was sat on a City trading desk sitting alongside people who were trading the very commodities I had spent the better part of my life growing. Those traders were often making money by exploiting the market distortions caused by the subsidy regime meant to help small/medium sized farms. Big agri business interest, commodity traders and people looking to avoid tax are the main beneficiaries of agricultural subsidies.

Unfortunately though, UK farmers only need subsidies because European farmers and US farmers get subsidies. If the World trade Organisation could somehow organise an international agreement to stop all farm subsidies the whole world would be far better off.

It will never happen.