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to not want to clean the flat when we leave

(47 Posts)
KalokiMallow Fri 28-Jan-11 20:40:18

I shall give you two options for this thread, as I'm aware I've gone on about the same subject for months now. So short version and long version.

Landlord is a wanker. An aggressive, threatening bastard who has made it impossible to live in our flat, yet we've still had to pay him rent. We move the last of our stuff out this month and I already know he's going to be a cunt about the deposit, so should I really bother cleaning? The place isn't a dump by any means, but it isn't spotless either.

Landlord refuses to fix things, like a giant hole in the wall for example. So we call environmental health, who obviously aren't too impressed. Landlord gets annoyed and turns up at the flat to threaten us for it, not just once but twice. Second time he stands banging on the door and yelling abuse for 15 minutes.

The first time he got in as DH didn't expect him to be aggressive, he thought that the landlord was actually going to bother fixing things. While there he accused DH of cracking a window, claiming he saw him do it while they were stood there. The crack had been there since before we moved in. So we already know he's a bullshitter.

Which, to me, suggests our deposit is long gone. I know there are rules in place, but we've had to fight for our deposit before and lost - and this was after properly cleaning! The flat was cleaner than when we moved in!

We haven't stayed at this flat since November, and have actually had to stay on friends and families floors - in totally different counties to our flat! Which is of course expensive as we still have to get back to near the flat for medical appointments etc. Plus feeding ourselves is costing more due to not being able to prepare food and freeze it.

On top of that, we were meant to be staying there for at least another year. And with that in mind had used some of our savings on our wedding (a month before all this started) and a car so I could actually leave the flat and get to my hospital appointments (mobility issues). And due to the cold snap we had to leave heating on low so that pipes didn't burst - even if we weren't there. And lights on a timer so that it still looked occupied.

The flat isn't spotless, but it isn't grim either. It's a bit dusty as we haven't been there to clean it, and the carpets could do with a professional clean (no stains, just the usual dirt accumulated, especially after moving boxes/furniture out). But that will cost us further, when he's already had 3 months rent for an empty property. And we are already out of pocket.

He's told our friend (who turned up to try and move him away from our door when he was yelling at us) that he thinks we are "dole scum" (both disabled) and he expects us to wreck the flat. So she thinks we should deep clean it to prove him wrong. She thinks it will annoy him. I get the feeling it wont somehow.

Extra money + pristine property + he'll probably find some excuse to not give us our deposit back = him laughing I feel.

Quite frankly I'd like to stick up a sign saying "fuck you cunt features" when we leave, though I will obviously not do that.

So really, AIBU to not clean the place? I'm well aware I'm very emotional about all this and would like some more logical/detached opinions.

pettyprudence Fri 28-Jan-11 20:48:34

did you sign an inventory at the start of the tenancy stating the condition of the property? Your deposit should be registered with a scheme and therefore protected - it is up to the landlord to prove the condition of the property before and after (so if you didn't sign an inventory, sod the cleaning and then take him to small claims/deposit scheme for return of bond grin)

KalokiMallow Fri 28-Jan-11 20:52:10

petty We did, we even made additions to it! With pro photos!

However, we also did that with the previous flat, and lost two thirds of our deposit. The only way to get the rest back would have involved court. Neither DH or myself are in any state mentally to deal with that on top of having no home.

earwicga Fri 28-Jan-11 20:54:33

You know you won't get any of your deposit back. No fucking way should you be cleaning the place.

squishysquashy Fri 28-Jan-11 20:57:58

We had a flat via an agency (very professional no probs), we cleaned the place thoroughly when we moved out as the inventory said it had been cleaned before we moved in and had to be left clean. They asked us whether professionally cleaned? As it hadn't been they took money out of our deposit to pay for professional clean (apparently impossible for a domestic clean to be as good as a professional hmm). So watch out for that if you do have an inventory, no point doing it then paying for it too.

Personally I wouldn't clean if no inventory. If you have an inventory which says you got the flat in a clean condition (not professionally cleaned condition) then clean it so that you have more to argue for in small claims.

If you have proof that flat uninhabitable (visit by environmental health?) then take photos of damage and take him to court for the rent too.

KalokiMallow Fri 28-Jan-11 21:00:40

squishy Yes, that's basically what our last letting agents did. Wouldn't give the deposit back unless we had a receipt for a cleaning company. hmm Not that they ever bothered with one!

squishysquashy Fri 28-Jan-11 21:02:21

x-post I appreciate court may be stressful. don't clean it.

don't you know anyone 'handy' who could 'have a word' with the landlord?

KalokiMallow Fri 28-Jan-11 21:03:16

We've had offers squishy But we wont stoop to his level.

tyler80 Fri 28-Jan-11 21:03:36

You shouldn't have to go to court to get your deposit back. If it's in a protected scheme you go to arbitration first.

Our landlord wanted to deduct 400 pounds off a 650 pound deposit. We eventually agreed at 80. From what I have read about arbitration, they tend to favour the tenant over the landlord in the absence of concrete evidence

FabbyChic Fri 28-Jan-11 21:04:30

Personally I would just hoover the place out and leave it clean, I would not professionally clean it though.

Just cos he is a scum wanker there is no need to come down to his level. What you do is meet him there on the day to hand over the keys and take the police with you tell them there will be bother.

Well it's one option.

I would take pictures of the flat as you have left it and get someone else to sign to confirm that is how it is left so you can fight for your deposit back.

FabbyChic Fri 28-Jan-11 21:07:04

You should have moved your stuff out rather than pay three months rent for basically storage.

KalokiMallow Fri 28-Jan-11 21:08:54

Fabby We couldn't get out of paying rent. Trust me, we tried, it seems that if we'd left before the contract ended then we'd have been forced to pay anyway. Possibly with court costs on top. We spoke to the local council, Shelter and two solicitors.

FabbyChic Fri 28-Jan-11 21:09:31

Sorry I remember from when you posted before. I hope you have managed to find somewhere nicer to live now.

KalokiMallow Fri 28-Jan-11 21:10:38

No problem

We're still stuck sleeping on floors at the moment. Waiting on either a council decision or for a letting agent/landlord to give us a chance. Whichever happens first.

cumfy Fri 28-Jan-11 21:11:53

Will you need/want a reference ?

If so, you'll probably have to do a deal with him.
Sounds evil TBH.

KalokiMallow Fri 28-Jan-11 21:15:05

I don't think we'll get a reference anyway tbh. Seeing as we are "dole scum" hmm

Katiekitty Fri 28-Jan-11 21:27:24

kaloki - I feel your pain, am a few weeks away from being dole scum, while renting

Leave on good terms as a good reference can go a long way

Sounds like you will get ripped off re deposit, (happened to me to no avail), but leave your house/flat and if you can, take photos with the said approver there, in the same photos.

I really feel for you, have been there

EricNorthmansMistress Fri 28-Jan-11 21:33:03

My friend wrote us a fake reference which did us fine (last LA were scumsuckers who were cunts and also charged for references)

Kaloki - IIRC you live in my town (begins with a B) so have you been to BHT? On london road? They may be able to advise.

I assume th council won't help until you have officially left the flat? If it's the one I'm thinking of they do have facility to assist you in finding private rental but you have to be unintentionally homeless.

This is all irrelevant if you live somewhere else of course but we recently moved out west to a town beginning with L close to W and found the letting agents to be darlings. Life is much better TBH. Would you consider that? Things are so much more cutthroat in the cities.

EricNorthmansMistress Fri 28-Jan-11 21:34:56

Oh yes we cleaned last place for hours but due to a cleaning company cock up there was maybe 2 hours of cleaning left to do - £320 for a professional end of tenancy firm apparently hmm so in your case I really wouldn't bother. Or find a cheap end of tenancy firm to pay to do it, if you do a bit yourself you should get it for about £120, and with a receipt he can't charge you again for it. Probably.

Grumpla Fri 28-Jan-11 21:38:14

Bloody hell. You sound like you're dealing pretty well with a horrendous situation. I really hope it works out soon for you.

You really, really shouldn't bother cleaning.

Katiekitty Fri 28-Jan-11 21:39:19

fake references?

Um, in twentyfive years of renting, I am yet to encounter an agency or person who accepts these

Please elucidate on your wisdom erics

EricNorthmansMistress Fri 28-Jan-11 21:42:09

Easy. The agency gave our details to a third party reference agency, we filled in forms online with NIno, employers, previous LL etc. I put my friend's details in as previous LL. My boss and my friend received phone calls. My boss confirmed my salary and my friend confirmed the dates we 'lived in her flat' and the rent we paid her. job done.

Cadpat Fri 28-Jan-11 21:43:30

I am so sorry for you!! He sounds horrible. When we left the country, we witheld the last month's rent, as we knew that the landlord would not refund us the deposit otherwise. We left the flat spotless, plus a whole lot of stuff like new kettles, toaster etc.

It was probably illegal, but can you do something of that sort? If he makes a fuss then he can take you to court, but you'll have evidence of his wrongdoing?

Katiekitty Fri 28-Jan-11 21:43:56

well, this is where I've been going fucking wrong all these fucking years, giving honest references

fuck me, I could have paid for my own fucking house by now

EricNorthmansMistress Fri 28-Jan-11 21:46:22

Ummm why are you so offended by this? I didn't make any money from it!

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