Right, I have got used to this now, and have quickly developed a thick skin....

[Catnao]

Am I being unreasonable to have read the threads in "Education - Gifted and Talented", and think that parents on there, for the most part, have missed the point, and think "gifted and talented" means academically bright?

[MrsNonSmoker]

I'm going to have a look now ... hang on ....

[Catnao]

Let me know...

[ChippingIn]

?

[Catnao]

I will answer that question when I know what it is...

[Ingles2]

well it does in some cases Catnao, ...
and the G&T programme in schools cover the academically bright, so how have they missed the point?
(I haven't read the threads btw)

[kelway]

i wouldn't post or read on there, just the title in itself makes me want to throw up

[Catnao]

Yes - quite - it does in SOME cases!

The vast majority of the threads I have read are about children (many primary) being top of the class in academic subjects - very few mentions of amazing musicians or brilliant artists, or fantastic gymnasts - unless they do those things AS WELL as being academically bright...

And bright/top of the class, to me, does also not automatically mean gifted and talented - just top end of normal...

[MrsNonSmoker]

Hmm, I'm none the wiser from reading those threads, but my understanding is that G&T for school purposes is gifted in maths, English, Art or music. If you look on the National Association for the Gifted and Talented, I am sure it also talks about being profoundly gifted, which can take many forms - for example, a child can be philosophical, or present original thought.

Are you trying to put a point over Catnao?

[gapbear]

Wotcher Catnao.

Shall I say about G& T children being the top 5-10% of the school population, rather than achieving set goals?

Eg, my son is G (obv not T) at maths...at least until someone who is better than him joins his class. Does it make Son2 any less intelligent? No. It's all bollocks.

[MrsNonSmoker]

X-posted - as far as I know schools have very narrow criteria for G&T, and even if a child is placed on such a list it won't necessarily be very helpful - G&T in English in DCs' school means you get an extra half an hour doing a project on, say, hedgehogs, once a week. I'm only talking about primary here - no knowledge of secondary.

[Catnao]

Not really, just that I am a primary teacher, and have been asked today to put any G and T children I have identified on the rgister, and I don't think I have any - except the one I DID put on, who is in bottom set (to use un PC language) for everything but an AMAZING artist for 5 years old. I think he does have a gift. You can put 'em on for everything, but my last school put the top 10% of the cohort for academic subjects, which I thought weird..

I DO have kids in my year one class who can read, write etc well above AVERAGE - but none of them make me think they are anything other than able kids. Nothing freakishly brilliant about them that would mean I had to offer over and above, other than correct differentiation.

[Catnao]

Sorry X posts - wotcher folks!

[IShallWearMidnight]

old criteria for G&T was top 5-10% of the country. Now it's top 10% in each school (and sometimes in each subject).

The gifted part is academic, the talented part is music/drama/sport.

[Ingles2]

well the dc who is great at art goes on the register under talented... why wouldn't he?

[Catnao]

No. It's not top 10%. There is no longer any criterium.

It's just that on the G&T threads there are no (that I could see) parents who had non academic children who were gifted or talented (gifted by whom, one wonders?).

And isn't gifted the same as talented?

And it was never the country, just the cohort. I have spoken to many surprised parents about this when Fred or Frederica was not "G & T" anymore when they moved schools....

[gapbear]

Government bollocks to keep the parents sweet. Lessons are differentiated anyway to stretch the more able.

It's all bollocks, I tell you. Bollocks.

(Should I be airing my opinions over on the other forum? :-D)

[Unrulysun]

The criteria at secondary is a mean score of 27on the CATs. Most secondaries do top 10% though for Gand T which is increasingly just called 'challenge'

it's not just for superbright or budding Mozarts - more a centralised way to ensure some kind of differentiation for the top end (and stop middle class parents opting out of the state school system because 'Quentin just won't bechallenged enough')

[Catnao]

I always thought it was in my job description to differentiate...I think G and T is bollocks, for what it's worth, unless it's a drink or I have a child who genuinely does need "over and above" help, as in IEPs/specialist teaching.

We have a kid in school who is apparently G and T for music. She is Y6 and has Grade 3 violin....

[gapbear]

pmsl @ Grade 3 violin...

[Catnao]

I wait with baited breath for her first self composed symphony...

[gapbear]

I spent hours composing my GCSE piece.

Turned out I'd composed Pachelbel's Canon in D.

[OmniumAndGatherum]

Catnao, I hope that is a joke in some way?

[OmniumAndGatherum]

(I mean I hope it is a joke that someone in Y6 at school is G&T with Grade 3 violin!)

[Megglevache]

I thought it meant in any area.

E.g. amazing musician/athlete/Mandarin speaker/Mathematician????