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To think some kids are just horrible little monsters?

(26 Posts)
ShanahansRevenge Mon 29-Nov-10 19:43:00

Ok...tell me if I am BU...I probably am.

My DD is 6 and in year 2...she is no angel and she has her faults BUT some kids seem to me to be just downright mean!

My DD doesn't tend to tell me much about her day....just odd bits and pieces but she will always tell me if someone was unkind to her friend or if there were any other "injustces" and she wil always tell me what she played and what she ate...she's articulate and reliable in that sense.

Today she came home and told me "Anna told Pansy to hit Mary and she did...and then Anna told Pansy that she was stupid and weird."

Now Pansy has some learning difficulties (autism and other things) and Mary is new to the school as she was bullied in her old school. Anna is also new...I just CANNOT understand why some kids do this kind of thing? I could understand it in a way if they had no settled in well..but they have!

Anna has made friends quicker than Mary...but they're doing well according to their Mums. It's a tiny school by the way.

My DD will argue with her little sister...will on occasion take things from her etc but she simply wouldn't have the slyness needed to get a child with learning diffiulties to hit another child...and then verbally abuse her about her SN. Neither would any of her friends....I have three of her classmates over regularly and they have spats but never anything like that...is it normal? To plan and machinate at the age of 7?

Maybe I am naive...but it upset me...we have known Pansy for three years...since reception and it is awful to think of her beng contolled like this.

DD says that Anna quite often does similar things. WHY do some kids do this....I want to know what makes them act like that? IS it their upbringing? Their natural nature? What? Seven seems so young to be so sly.

ShanahansRevenge Mon 29-Nov-10 19:51:50

Anyone?

AgentZigzag Mon 29-Nov-10 19:55:34

A couple of things I've picked up are -

Don't take what your DC say at face value

What they say is only half the story, and that half can get muddled up

Best not to get involved in the tiffs they have

I agree that from what the DC say coming home from school, they can be right little 'tinkers', but it's probably not as bad as they make out, and like it or not your DD is/will become about the same.

ApocalypseCheeseToastie Mon 29-Nov-10 19:56:04

Think some children are capable of being vile, same as some adults, t'is the way of the world sadly.

onepieceoflollipop Mon 29-Nov-10 19:56:43

No real advice. My dd (who is 6) had a slightly older friend who was quite sly like this, frequent hitting etc when her own parents didn't notice.

The parents (imo) did their best, but were perhaps unobservant. i.e. they didn't realise and didn't want to accept that their daughter would behave like this so didn't watch for it and if they did see it made up reasons/excuses. (e.g. assumed my dd or another child was at fault and "telling tales")

in the case I mention the parents were both lovely, kind and sociable people. Possibly a bit "softer" in terms of discipline than I am.

LifeForRent Mon 29-Nov-10 19:57:53

YANBU there are plenty of little bastards monsters about. It's all down to the their parents and their upbringing and a plea for attention. Whilst I'm usually nice and understanding, I'm extremely cold and hungry, so my advice is to avoid the little terror, and discourage your little one from playing with her.

peggotty Mon 29-Nov-10 19:58:18

I think some children are capable of just not being very nice people the same way that adults are. Probably a bit of nature and nurture. Kids are very adept at seeking out and using 'difference' as well. It's upsetting because they don't actually have the guile, despite what you think, to hide it particularly well, and when we witness it, as adults, it seems incredibly cruel.

whoknowswhatthefutureholds Mon 29-Nov-10 19:58:37

I think some people can act horribly, I don't think anyone is horrible to their core.

And tbh 6 year olds are hardly the best source of a unjudgemental recollection of any incident!

Generally they say mean things unintentionally without meaning to be mean as they are unaware that they are saying upsetting things and also tghey as they yet are unable to be able to emphaise well.

Goblinchild Mon 29-Nov-10 19:58:54

Tell your daughter to talk to the teacher next time it happens. You can't do anything, but the teacher can.

Beamur Mon 29-Nov-10 20:01:48

I think you're right - some are just awful (DP tells me I cannot say this about children...)
However, I would say that your child may not be the best witness (but you would be a better judge of this than me) - my DD is brilliant at remembering the 'wrongs' done to her. She still tells me off for a bad dream she had when she was about 18 months old where I turned into a horrible snail...it was a dream ffs, but I still get a very solemn rebuke about it.

ShanahansRevenge Mon 29-Nov-10 20:03:38

Yes...I told her to tell the teacher and she said that Pansy got in trouble....I dont think she mixes things up...she's very articulate...very...but I will just keep my ears and eyes open because no way am I letting that little beggar get away with this kind of thing.

onceamai Mon 29-Nov-10 20:03:49

Because they aren't yet 7 and haven't learnt how to act nasty and keep it under wraps.

ShanahansRevenge Mon 29-Nov-10 20:04:53

Beamur...BOTH my DDs ave had nightmares about snails! How weird! Mind you...they are a bit alien looking.

Snails. Not DDs.

ShanahansRevenge Mon 29-Nov-10 20:06:11

Well oncemai the mean girlis 7 actually...he is one year almost..older than the other girls..I think 7 is odd enough to no right from wrong in this sense...when you are picking on a vulnerable child.

BlueFergie Mon 29-Nov-10 20:25:10

I am a bit hesitant here because my kids are younger so I have no experience of 6/7 year olds, but I do think it is still quite young. Even in legal terms they are not recognised as being able to distinguish right from wrong. How well formed should empathy be at that age?
Is Anna aware that Pansy has learning difficulties, are they aware of these things at that age, especially if there is no obvious physical signs? Has it ever been explained to her why Pansy acts a little bit differently?
It does sound like Anna has realised that Pansy is a bit different. That she will do things that she is asked to do that others wont and she is testing this out. It seems that having noticed these differences she is commenting on them out loud which again is probably normal enough for 6/7 year olds who are probably not known for their tact.
I think kids develop emotionally at different speeds and while Anna sounds like she is a bit behind were your DD is it may not neccessarily mean she is a monster and there is no hope for her. She probably needs to mature a bit more. In particular she probably does need to be sat down and explained to why she shouldn't be acting with Pansy the way she is.

mamatomany Mon 29-Nov-10 20:31:04

It's not that the children are horrors, they all have the potential for it but the parents continue to make excuses for the behavior through their teens right up until adulthood.
The ones that are buggers at 5 are buggers at 15 IME as the good kids have been sorted out long before they get to school.

ShanahansRevenge Mon 29-Nov-10 20:31:08

They're all bright kids...they know Pansy has some SN...even my two year old makes allowances for her!

I may mention it to the teacher. Not to tell tales but draw her attention to it.

pissovski Mon 29-Nov-10 22:14:17

i remember being aged 4 or 5 and being smacked across the face by a little girl in my class, who did it because someone told her to/dared her to. Honestly no other reason.

She didn't get into trouble because her mum worked at the school, as did the grandmother of the girl who told her to do it

Some people can be very nasty/manipulative from a very young age sadly

A1980 Mon 29-Nov-10 22:17:07

All I have to go on is my own experience as a child. What I do remember is that some children were complete and utter bastards to other children.

As others have said some people are capable of shocking cruelty from a very young age.

MrsSnaplegs Mon 29-Nov-10 22:39:23

My DH got called to see headmistress today when he went to pick up DD (5) from school this afternoon.
Apparently 2 older boys (6/7) decided to kick her (in the chest!) today - one told the other to do it supposedly.
Headmistress very clear DD had not provoked it in any way, no idea why they picked on her specifically.
Both boys made to apologise to DD in front of DH and both had made her cards to apologise - not sure what will be said to their parents.
We have only recently moved here and think this has been a bit of a shock to her. Lots of TLC this evening!

CoteDAzur Mon 29-Nov-10 22:48:50

In my experience, kids with violent and "nasty" behaviour have learnt it somewhere. Usually at home, from an abusive older sibling or parent.

ShanahansRevenge Mon 29-Nov-10 23:09:53

Ah...poor DD MrsSnapLegs! I hope she is ok now...t least school sdealt with it right away....

I just can't see this child being from an abusive background though Cote...parents seem lovely!

I think it's very sad tbh....the other kids will put up with it because the majority are nice!

backwardpossom Mon 29-Nov-10 23:13:27

YAB a bit U - kids aren't born nasty/evil/horrible etc - it's learned behaviour.

sims2fan Tue 30-Nov-10 03:45:32

A lot of 6 year olds are more than capable of getting the facts right when they retell something that happened, just as some 6 year olds can be very horrid, sly, manipulative etc. And some are horrible intentionally as they like to get a reaction out of people. I once found out about some bullying going on in my class of Year 1 children by 2 boys against a girl with special needs (in the playground when I wasn't on playground duty) because another little girl went home and told her mum, so the mum came and told me. The girl who told her mum was very bright, articulate and empathetic, and I knew she was telling the truth. Plus, the girl who was being picked on told her mum too, who came to me in tears because of how these boys were making her daughter feel. They were quite capable of doing it purposefully and slyly - making sure they were out of sight and earshot of teachers, and picking on her because they knew she wouldn't be able to stand up for herself.

I once did some supply teaching in a Nursery class for a few days and had a little girl, 'Molly' in the class who was best friends with 'Sarah.' Molly tried to have complete control over Sarah all the time. When it was time to sit on the carpet, if Sarah wanted to sit next to Molly she would be told, 'Eurgh, go away! I don't want to sit next to you!' But then, as soon as she went to sit somewhere else Molly would say 'I'm only joking, you can sit next to me!' and Sarah would immediately go back to her. Or, if she ever did try to sit next to someone else first she would be told, 'You're not my friend if you don't sit next to me!' So Sarah would meekly go back to Molly. Then, Molly would sit and do things like pull Sarah's hair, pinch her, whisper in her ear 'you're not my friend and I don't like you,' etc. I was shocked at such behaviour from a 3 or 4 year old, and of course tried to keep them separated, but for some reason Sarah seemed to be completely under Molly's control and kept gravitating towards her, only for Molly to be awful to her!

My mum has told me that a girl who was horrible to me when we were about 9, was already showing 'bitchiness' aged 3 at playgroup. Apparently, when one girl came into playgroup proudly wearing some colourful homemade dungarees my mum witnessed her turn to another couple of little girls and say 'Eurgh, don't you think __'s clothes are horrible?!' And then she openly laughed at this poor child. Aged 3!

Last year I taught Reception, and had one little boy who seemed to be a model pupil, but after a few days I sussed that the problems another couple of boys were having ('Lewis says he's not my friend!' etc) were actually being caused by this boy going up to one of the other 2 boys and telling him that the other boy had been saying things about him. Once, when trying to get to the bottom of a playground quarrel between a few boys I overheard him telling one boy what to say to me, which was untrue, and which would get another boy into trouble. He seemed to delight in seeing others upset or in trouble, and even complained to his mum about someone picking on him, so she came to the school to complain about bullying. He also made an allegation about a member of staff smacking him, which I was never told anything more about after telling a senior teacher, but as the staff member wasn't disciplined or sacked I assume it was a lie.

I think in most cases upbringing is the cause of most children's misbehaviour, but it is very difficult to get the balance right, as children with too many boundaries can grow up with problems just like children with too few boundaries!

ShanahansRevenge Tue 30-Nov-10 07:44:54

Sims2fan I have see similar behaviour in DDs class to that which you saw "Molly" guilty of...I HATE it...my DD is not capable of this so why should she and her friends have to put up with it?

Teachers in our school I think are often unware of the quiet bullying...they only see the hitting and pushing.

I am having a word today...thank you for your insight.

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