Ideas for Dairy/Soy allergic ds

[Saacsmum]

My boy is now 7.5mths old. He has 3 meals a day and app. 5bf during the day and at least one during the night. We are following a guide for introducing solids to allergic children and so far he has pear, potato, kumara, courgette, rice, carrot. He has also tried but had a reaction to peaches. We introduced rice milk as part of his diet making rice pudding with it which he will eat. We have tried Neocate formula with absolutely no success whatsoever. Will the rice milk be enough when he weans? He will have a soy challenge at 12mths and dairy at 24mths, if these cause reactions can I provide enough calcium through ricemilk, he won't drink it straight, how much does he need. Starting to worry as am finding bfeeding hard going and would like to know that there is a chance I can wean him at 1 without risking his health too much. Any ideas?

[bobbybob]

Rice milk is not suitable as a complete milk food for infants, it is very hollow nutritionally and it would be hard for him to continue to grow on it. In the worse cases it has led to infant malnutrician.

Breastfeeding a 1 year old is very different to a 7.5 month old who can eat such a limited range (I've been there). Keep trying the neocate and don't worry now about a problem you may or may not have in the future. At a year soy may be fine, and the skin prick test for dairy may be okay. If neither of these are tolerated then ask to see a dietician.

[Saacsmum]

You have confirmed what I had been thinking. Dr Ford suggested Rice Milk alongside a range of solid foods would be enough for him but I have my doubts. I am only worrying as I am finding the bfeeding an issue and wanted reassurance that there were other options once he is a year old. I guess we will just have to see about the soy at a year. Though soy is also not a complete food for infants, though at a year neither will be his sole form of nutrition.

[tatt]

Have you tried mixing the neocate with expresed breast milk so that he gets used to the different taste gradually? If you start with a low amount of neocate and gradually increase it he may take to it yet. Rice milk isn't ideal but there are other sources of calcium like broccoli and, when he's older, white bread. There are other "milks" too like oat milk although I don't know how good that is for calcium as my family think it tastes horrid. He may even be able to eat bony fish eventually and there are always calcium supplements. Dairy may not be a problem later on or you may find he can have goats milk and/or cheese and yoghurt where the proteins are slightly different to milk. If you do find dairy a problem a dietician would help.

[bobbybob]

I was told at age 2 a kid can get by with food and water with calcium supplements. When people talk about rice milk, or no milk being okay for younger children, they are talking in the context of a normal diet. A diet that contains no dairy or soy is missing a major chunk, and rice milk simply will not replace that.

If the soy challenge is okay Dr Ford will prescribe soy formula, which should be a bit more palatable. I would persist with the neocate though, even if he only drinks a little per day you can describe it as weaning very slowly.

Is ds's sleep the issue that makes you keen to wean?

[Saacsmum]

Not so much his sleep as I dont think weaning is the answer for that. The problem is more to do with my health as I am now down to 46kg due to restricted diet, am under a dietitian but I am simply burning more than I can replace. It would help enormously if I could eat soy or dairy again.

[bobbybob]

Heck! That is quite some weight loss. Can they give you the adult equivalent of neocate (one does exist, I have seen it, just don't know what it is called) to fatten you up a bit? Or drink his neocate if he won't?

I would ask for more skin prick tests for your ds to see if you could introduce soy or dairy into your diet again.

Ds is still very allergic to egg, but I accidentally had some aioli in a sandwich on mother's day (and had a bad mummy moment where it tasted so good I carried on eating once I realised) and he has had no reaction, so maybe there comes a point that they can cope with the allergen in breastmilk before they can cope with it for real.

You won't consider meat as an option? (Sorry if this is massively offensive, my brother is vegan and has health troubles, so I am prepared for a backlash for suggesting this)

It's so hard, but if you can't keep weight on with the diet, how will your ds?

[Saacsmum]

We are going to raise him as a meat eater so he shouldnt have a problem with the weight issues. The product you are talking about is available through DR Ford and I have been taking that, almost as unpalatable as rice milk but a means to an end. I am almost at the point where I would consider eating meat if it is a case of my health starting to effect his health if you know what I mean but would like to see if there are other solutions first such as him being on a balanced diet and weaning.

[tatt]

your baby takes the nutrients he needs and leaves you the leftovers but if you lose too much weight he doesn't have a mum to play with/ love him so you need to care for yourself too.

I saw a tv programme recently about a mares milk farm. Mares milk is supposed to be less allergenic so I'll do a search and see if I can find anythig in NZ - if I don't post I haven't. Maybe its time to try a little goats cheese in your diet - taking lactase for extra protection - and then see if he reacts to that.

[tatt]

didn't find anything useful. Wanted to make it clear I wasn't encouraging you do go against your doctor's advice just to see what they say about rrying lactase. Think that seemed to be your problem rather than the proteins but goats or ewes cheese might still be safest? Found this site with a good range of non dairy stuff

www.organicproduce.co.nz/shop/shop.php?sid=1767def08f313a06f3a8261c283cd9f9&cat=14

[Saacsmum]

thanks for that tatt, unfortunately there is a problem with the lactose and with the protein. The paed here didnt think me taking lactase would benefit ds, the symptoms he was having from the lactase in my bmilk do seem to have lessened, less blood in naps etc. The proteins, the paed said that the proteins in goats milk and cows milk are very similar in composition and chances are high that he would react, am more than happy if this is in fact not the case but very scared of doing a trial!

[tatt]

proteins in cows and goats milk are pretty similar - but dissimilar enough so that some people tolerate one and not the other. I've seen different percentages for how many people can have goats or ewwes milk and not cows Some say very few some say half! Not going to be any good if you also have a problem with lactose, though, and your doctor doesn't think lactase will help. What if you both took it? He's had other tests for the blood hasn't he? I know allergies can cause violent diarrhoea, didn't realise that could involve blood in nappies.

[tatt]

Just found this www.food-allergens.de/symposium-2-1/ cows-milk/cows-milk-abstract.html which I think is helping me understand the different percentages. If you have a true allergic (IgE) response to milk protein then it suggets 80% with a reaction to cows milk will react to goats milk. However if the problem is actually one of milk intolerance or milk induced digestive problem then the percentage may reacting to goats milk may be lower because its more readily digested.

Topic of much interest to me at the moment because if we ever manage to get proper allergy tests I think its going to take forever

[Berries]

My dd2 was diagnosed with dairy intolerance at about 18mths and was put on pepti-junior (dairy/soy free). Although she didn't like to drink it much, she was fine when we used it for cooking, so ate a lot of custards etc. There are a lot of other sources of calcium, like broccoli and many other leafy veg. Fish is good, but only if you can mush up the little bones (??) , he would be too young for that yet. I was lucky in that my dd had an intolerance rather than an allergy (milder) and has since grown out of most of it, so she can eat processed milk products, such as cheese, without a reaction now. Bread has a surprising amount of calcium, but check whether it contains dairy (you'd be surprised). I got very good at cooking everything from scratch, if you need butter, Sainsburys 'free from' (not Pure) tastes the best & is dairy & soya free. Can make a great chocolate fudge cake with that & proper drinking choc (ie not the stuff with dairy in it). I think it's probably a lot easier to feed the children as they get older, although dd2 is (and always will be) a very picky eater.
BTW we have had a few concerned mums after tea-time play dates asking about her 'allergy' as if she doesn't want to eat something she just tells them she's allergic to it!

[foxinsocks]

Sorry if I've missed your whole story somewhere but is he definitely allergic to soy and dairy?

From experience with my dd (who was egg, dairy and soy allergic), there is very little chance of getting them to take neocate (we were on nutramigen but it's much of a muchness) and breast feed because breast milk tastes so much nicer! Once you stop breastfeeding (if this is your plan), you may find you have more success.

In your shoes I would probably carry on breast feeding till the 12 months soy challenge and take it from there. If he passes, there is soy milk formula specially devised for babies that has all the nutrients they need. It doesn't taste great though so you'll probably have to persevere to get it down him. If he fails and you want to stop b-feeding, you'll have to persevere with the neocate until he takes some.

As they get older, there are loads of foods that are rich in calcium that they can eat (sardines, purple sprouting broccoli etc.).

[Saacsmum]

Hi thanks for the replies and ideas. He has what we were told is cows milk colitis which according to the paed is an allergic reaction rather than an intolerance. The soy is an allergy and results in excema everywhere. Peaches are the same as well as redness around mouth and anywhere juice has come in direct contact. The blood in the nappies was according to the paed a result of his inability to adequately digest lactose, he produces some lactase but not enough. The sugars that werent getting digested were irritating his already inflamed colon and resulted in the bleeding. Unfortunately in NZ there are no marg/butter type spreads that are dairy and soy free. Anyway you have all given me food for thought and some ideas of what to try so thanks.

[bobbybob]

Bob was terrible with peaches/apricots etc. but is now fine with them. He avoided "slimy" food for ages, but will now try to eat it - so I know it's okay.

It's funny how they know isn't it?

[Saacsmum]

Is this anything to do with salicitates that I have been hearing about and if so what are the other foods that contain salicitates?

[bobbybob]

It could be, I know they are in broccoli and peppermint, but I'm not sure what else.

It wasn't salicylates for Bob, as he was fine with broccoli which has far more in. Babies are messy eaters and get lots of contact rashes. Tinned peaches were better than fresh.

Sue Dengate's books explain what natural food chemicals are in food, and how tinning or freezing them affects them.

[tatt]

sticking with milk for the moment seems like the medical term is "Allergic proctocolitis" and it can be hard to differentitate this from other causes of illness. This was an interesting article. Seems like its proteins rather than lactose that causes it and that he is likely to grow out of it - so at least you may not have the problem for life. I think your doctor already has you on probiotics doesn't he?

This is a useful bit about peach allergy and the other foods/ pollen that he may react to
www.food-allergens.de/symposium-2-4/peach/peach-abstract.html

I've found this cookbook with a few free recipes to download, although the fruited salad includes peaches it could be made without them.

pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/111/6/S2/1609


www.foodallergycookbook.com/

[Saacsmum]

Thanks tatt. The peach article was really interesting. Looks like I may need to be careful with apple, he is not due to try that until after 9mths anyway so hopefully all goes well. I love recipe sites so will sift through the ones you have sent also. We are hopeful that he will outgrow both soy and milk allergies. He had an operation when he was small on his gut and some of the readings that I accessed at the time indicated that abdominal surgery can be linked to sensitivities especially cows milk protein sensitivities, and if these products were avoided there was a high chance of tolerating them as an older child. The soy we think was just a result of his system being bombarded with it as I drank loads of soy milk to compensate for the loss of milk in my diet, hopefully that will also just be a matter of time. The peaches Im not so sure about but am not worried as these are not too difficult to avoid. We do use probiotics and I think in general he has come leaps and bounds since being on them.

[tatt]

sorry I got the references a bit muddled The cookbook one is at the bottom We've got some lactase to try now but have to wait a few days until he recovers from the last accidental bit of milk before he can try it. After reading that medical article I don't think it could help you though

In view of your low weight I'd try mixing breast milk and neocate and switching him over gradually.

[Portree]

Saacsmum, more by luck than anything else I did manage to get my son to take Nutramigen from an early age and continue b/f too until he weaned himself at 12 months. This link is to another message I replied to a while ago, if it helps in anyway. Just details how I got him onto the Nutramigen. HTH.

Here

[tatt]

Had a first try with lactase (because the after eight had traces of milk in them) and it didn't work Going to try a stronger dose next time but have to wait until he feels he can cope.

[Saacsmum]

Sorry the lactase didnt work tatt, Ill keep my fingers crossed that it is better next time. Thanks Portree I read that post and will try some of your ideas, I havent had any success with using it in food yet, he is a bit on the fussy side with taking solids and turns his nose up at the faintest whiff of neocate in his food! Will keep trying though.

[ruty]

i've been away for a week and missed this whole thread. as you know saacsmum, my ds also diagnosed with allergic colitis and had two months of blood and mucus in his nappies. my diet is also horribly limited, no dairy, no soy, no gluten, and i wonder if my ds is getting enough calcium and iron, tho i take supplements. I tried the neocate again and some days he will take some. i haven't had much guidance with weaning, dietician not interested, and i think i've been overdoing it giving him meat everyday to get enough iron. My dietician suggested egg yoks but he vomited it all up so no more of that. His glands are up now so something still not right. Dietitian gave me calcium supplements for him, but they have saccharin and aspartame in them ! She can't understand why i don't want to give them. So tired of all this.