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Delayed allergic reactions

(26 Posts)
Smithagain Wed 24-Sep-08 21:00:35

Can anyone advise me how long it can take for an allergic reaction to a food to appear. I know that some are immediate and some can be delayed - but I need an idea how long the delay could be.

The background is - DH severely allergic to nuts, DD1 has had a nut-free diet up till now (she's 6). She has had RAST tests for peanuts and a range of tree nuts which all came up negative. We are now in the process of introducing nuts to her diet, carefully, one at a time.

She's had hazel, twice , with no reaction. I did that during school holidays. I want to try some others, but DH is understandably not keen to do it while he's in the house. So I can't do it at the weekend.

But if I do it after school, we only have 3-4 hours till her bedtime. Is that enough time for monitoring, or is there a risk of her developing a reaction in her sleep?

misi Wed 24-Sep-08 23:00:15

it depends on the Ig molecule involved.
some can react within seconds, some can take a week or more.

nut allergies are that, an allergy, different from an intolerance.
nut allergies can induce a severe reaction and possibly anaphylactic shock and generally happens very quickly. intolerance build up over time and can often be reduced quite effectively. an allergy is there for life with no repsite.

I would suggest you try this only at weekends to be safe and keep DH well away or maybe go to someone elses house?

for a list of Ig's look here a bit down the page en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antibody

If you are allergic to nuts, when you first come into contact with nuts your immune system reacts and prepares to fight. However, you don't get any symptoms of a reaction. It is only when you come into contact with nuts for a second time that a full allergic reaction happens. Most children who are allergic to nuts have the symptoms of an allergic reaction when they appear to be exposed to nuts for the first time. However, this is probably not their first exposure, but their second. They may already have come into contact with nuts through their mother - either whilst they were in the womb or through breast milk if they were breastfed.

Most people with nut allergy react after contact with small amounts (less than one nut) and some people may react to trace amounts. This means that you don't always have to eat nuts to have a reaction. A few people are so sensitive to nut allergens that a tiny amount on their lips, or even standing next to someone eating peanuts, can be enough to start a reaction.

There are lots of different allergens but nuts cause some of the strongest and most severe reactions.

Some people with peanut allergy might also react to some vegetables (legumes) like soya, green beans, kidney beans, baked beans and green peas because these foods contain similar allergens to peanuts. Be aware that alcohol can make an allergic reaction stronger. (not relevant to a 6 year old though grin]

hope this is of help?

tatt Thu 25-Sep-08 07:12:37

Take her out of the house, give her nuts, wipe her hands carefully and wash them as soon as you return to the house. Watch carefully for 4 hours.

While a few people are allergic to the products of digestion, rather than nut itself, most react immediately or at least within minutes. With negative tests you should be safe after 4 hours.

Smithagain Thu 25-Sep-08 13:40:02

Duh! I don't know why I didn't think of just going out of the house to do it. We will take a walnut whip for a walk one Saturday morning and wash carefully on our return. I think DH will be able to cope with that. Hopefully the blood tests will be proved right and then I can start relaxing when she goes to parties.

BlueBumedFly Thu 25-Sep-08 13:56:47

Sorry to hi-jack, Misi, do you know what the prevalence of nut allergies are in a child if a half-sib is anaphylactic.

Although we are in the study with DD2 I cannot get a straight answer out of anyone about my DD3 and nuts. She is 17 months and I really really want to try her on nuts but am terrified! I only know about peanuts, what is the least allergenic does anyone know? Is a walnut good for a starter?

Maybe I should just let DD3 handle a nut first or try a little on her cheek a few times?

Smithagain Thu 25-Sep-08 14:17:28

I'm interested to know if there are some nuts that are generally less allergenic than others, too.

I only mentioned walnut because it's the only one that I think DD might have accidentally eaten as a toddler (when I was careless with a carrot cake at a coffee morning). DH is allergic to walnuts, among many others.

misi Thu 25-Sep-08 14:27:22

hmm, most tree nuts are lumped in together allergy wise, peanuts are different as they are a legume which is why some vegetables also can cause similar problems like peanuts can.
I cannot say what is least allergic as an allergic reaction is that, it is the bodies response to an invader it cannot cope with. in some a peanut may cause severe reactions like anaphylactis but that same peanut may only cause a minor reaction in someone else. it is the level of IgE (mainly but other Ig's can be involved) the body produces as a response.

for the prevalence, is the half sib your child or new H's child? and do you know whose side the allergy may come from? so if the half sib is yours, was it you or your exH that could have possibly passed the allergy on? (allergies are not always genetically passed but is a good indicator)

the usual advice given is that if there is a nut allergy in the family, then nuts should not be tried until at least 3 years old.

whatever though, the advice from everyone will mainly always be, do not try DD3 on nuts till she is at least 3. she is likely to have already been exposed to nuts as nut residue can be found it some very strange places/sources so the chances are if she is allergic, her body is primed to react and at 17 months that reaction will be worse to cope with than at 3 years.

hope that helps somewhat?

BlueBumedFly Thu 25-Sep-08 14:29:11

Half sib not mine, my DH's. No way of knowing where the allergy has come from sadly.

OK, will wait till she is 3, sound advice misi thanks

misi Thu 25-Sep-08 14:29:34

walnuts will be just as allergenic as other tree nuts if you have an allergy to tree nuts in general, but as mentioned above, it is the bodies response that is crucial.

misi Thu 25-Sep-08 14:32:56

has your DH an allergy of any kind or does he know if his ex has an allergy?
if he is on good terms with his ex, it may be worth asking as this is for the sake of a child and doesn't really matter that it is not his ex's child and hopefully the ex will be co-operative. if it is from her side then the chances are slim indeed, but you will generally find from any medical or natural health care professional that the age to try should be at least 3 to be safe

BlueBumedFly Thu 25-Sep-08 14:41:56

We are all very close. DD2 is in the STOP study at the mo and she is being desinsitized. DH has a tendency towards plaque psoriasis and I have always wondered as this is auto-immune if it has anything to do with it.

DD3 had same cradle cap and baby ezcema that DD2 had. Also both were intol to eggs and I know the facts and I know this does predispose dd3 to nuts too sad

misi Thu 25-Sep-08 15:01:13

it does but only because there is no hard proof!!

the psoriasis is often caused by poor digestion that causes an auto immune response. psoriasis, rhuematoid arthritis etc can be caused by the imbalance in the cAMP and gAMP cyclic action within the body. this is a consequuence of poor protein digestion which enables certain bugs to flourish in the gut, these bugs, to protect themselves secrete an endo toxin that is very similar to a compound that is an antagonist in joints. this has the consequence of causing the body to produce another Ig reaction to counter this toxin. as in RA these toxins accumulate in the joints, thats where the damage is done. with psoriasis, the AMP/GMP cycle is disrupted. cGMP is the compound that induces cell proliferation/growth, cAMP encourages cell death. the endo toxin can interfere with the cAMP so leaving the cGMP in dominance which is why you get the accelerated skin growth seen in psoriasis. other factors play a role in this, general bowel toxaemia as mentioned above is one, caused by the incomplete protein digestion and impaired liver function is another major contributor.

my suggestion would therefore be, not to try DD3 on nuts till she is 3 at least and see what happens with DD2 in the meantime. with allergies and kids, it is always better to err on the side of caution as no-one knows what really goes on as it is unethical (and illegal) to conduct tests on kids that young so no-one does it to find out!!

good luck, avoiding nuts is a difficult thing, I read today that several products have been withdrawn from supermarkets because of possible nut contamination. I am sure you will already know all the nut advice websites, so definately have another look on those as new advice comes online all the time

BlueBumedFly Thu 25-Sep-08 18:20:40

my goodness Misi, what a brilliant post, I am going to sit down after DD is in bed and read it properly, many thanks for taking so much time to explain, I really do appreciate it.

tatt Fri 26-Sep-08 09:12:58

misi I'm interested in this for a friend with severe psoriasis. They are vegetarian. Anything you can suggest that would help them?

BlueBumedFly Fri 26-Sep-08 12:54:33

Tatt - my DH is also a veggie (he is the one with psoriasis. He does suffer more with Pasta and I think the full on gluten in durham (sp?) wheat causes digestion problems, as Misi said the cycle must be being disrupted. DD3 cannot have pasta as it gives her eczema.

So, I am going to keep DD3 and DH off pasta for a month and see what happens. Will also keep DD3 away from nuts for the time being. DD2 is having her nut challenge this week and we move from 400mg of peanut protein to peanut butter, all very exciting.

misi Fri 26-Sep-08 22:22:09

tatt, I do not have much time at this moment, got my son here and we're off for a day or 2 tomorrow. but the usual place I start with any client with psoriasis, is to improve digestion and elimination, and the liver function.

it is mainly protein and there are proteins in veggie sources, so I usually ''prescribe'' a broad spectrum digestive enzyme preparation, psyllium husk fibre (maxicol or lepicol is best) and a milk thistle/artichoke prep for the liver. I usually say try this for a month and then come back and see what has happened. It usually doesn't clear up in this time but changes are noticable if it is going to have an effect.

these things I am happy with telling you about as they are pretty harmless and don't react or interfere with any thing else you may have or take unless you have ulcers of course and then digestive enzymes should not be taken, (its the HCA content) if you buy a reputable brand, they will say this on the label anyway.

blue, this will be of use to your DH too, but I will be back ''in force'' on sunday night if you want to know more.

tatt Sat 27-Sep-08 10:13:57

Thanks. The only thing he takes is evening primrose oil. Being thrown off machine by impatient child.

tatt Sat 27-Sep-08 10:14:00

Thanks. The only thing he takes is evening primrose oil. Being thrown off machine by impatient child.

BlueBumedFly Sat 27-Sep-08 11:55:40

Thanks Misi - I am really interested. Would like to know if I pop into a high street health food shop or have to order online?

DH does have what I consider bad digestion so I am really interested. He is also very stressed at the moment and just rushing off up to see his parents as his Dad has been diagnosed with Cancer and I think all the extra stress isn't helping the skin.

If you do have a chance to respond on Sunday I would be most grateful. Thanks.

misi Mon 29-Sep-08 00:07:33

best to visit a local health food shop if you have one as they can often have trained staff to advise you more and guide you to the right product in store (or even order it in if need be)
stress knackers digestion. the normal stress response stops or slows digestion down as blood is needed elsewhere so it doesn't want to be tied down to digestion process. long term stress can keep digestion slow, make the liver work overtime (by having to detox all those stress hormones) and the liver dumping extra toxins in the intestines whether they be the broken down hormones or other waste that the liver couldn't deal with as it was too busy and is dumped back into the blood stream or intestines only to be re absorbed. stress will also alter body chemistry but altering the acid balance which will affect the skin and can lead to more bacteria surving on the skin to infect any sores, cuts or other weak points and if steroid cream is ever used on the skin, the skin is thinned by the steroid cream and so becomes a weak point.

tatt. I usually don't reccommend EPO on its own for psoriasis as although EPO helps in the production of hormones it can be an antagonist for more problenms as it can act as an immflamatory agent. omega 3 is far better usually as this helps the skin and more importantly, helps the liver both directly and indirectly. (and can be used as an anti immflamatory) most western style diest have more than enough omega 6 (EPO) but far too little omega 3 either from fish source or as ALA (alpha lineoleic acid, which in converted in the gut to omega3 if you are 1 of the 60% of the population to have the enzyme needed to do so) from veg source.

you often find that just by improving digestion and elimination 75% of sufferers get very good results. I suffer from psoriasis but have not had any outward signs for many years and I eat quite badly sometimes blush, but my digestion and elimination is top notch!!

so my usual reccommendation is to take a decent digestive enzyme, psyllium husk fibre and a milk thistle complex. if using maxicol or lepicol for the psyllium husk source then no other friedly bugs are needed but if not using these, then a good friendly bug pill can be used to.

the ones I personlly use when needed and often reccommend are

quest enzyme digest shop.questvitamins.co.uk/xcart/product.php?productid=2981&cat=9&page=1

lepicol www.lepicol.com/s/index.php?cPath=21 (great site for info on bowel health as well)

kordells milk thistle complex www.optimah.com/shop/proddetail.asp?prod=20050704150111

and if needed solaray multidopholis www.nutraceutical.com/search/view_product.cfm?product_index=7670017 (this is the US home site and their variety contains 10bil bugs where the UK variety contains 20bil

some extra info on digestive enzymes

[[ http://www.questhealthlibrary.com/other-supplements/digestive-enzymes]]

hope this all is of help

tatt Mon 29-Sep-08 08:38:52

Thank you misi. I've tried to get him off EP and on to flaxseed oil before as I couldn't see how EPA could help a veggie. He insists it does so no chance of changing that (or getting him to try fish oil, he's a strict veggie) but I may give him digestive enzymes and milk thistle for his Christmas present!

Our local health food shop has nice friendly staff but they aren't exactly well informed and they don't have large stock.

Lepicol powder isn't easy stuff to swallow grin.

misi Mon 29-Sep-08 11:36:05

www.schmoo.co.uk/thclub/hemp.htm

I mix lepicol with pineapple juice and then drink a glass of water after but if necessary, maxicol do there stuff in veggie caps too.

tell him that hemp oil will be far better then. hemp oil contains the omega6 he wants and believes helps him (but could be making his psoriasis worse) but also omega3.

hemp oil is one of the richest sources of oils and nutrients around and I reccommend to all my veggie clients that they take hemp oil as there is also protien in it which is very easy to digest.

where abouts are you in the world?

BlueBumedFly Tue 30-Sep-08 10:01:06

Thank you so much Misi, going to grab a coffee and digest (so to speak!)

misi Tue 30-Sep-08 14:24:13

is the coffee you'll be having Indonesian kopi luwak by chance? grin

BlueBumedFly Tue 30-Sep-08 14:40:55

Hee Hee, nope, fully 100% caffine rich starbucks - nought wrong with me grin

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