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Kinesiology - discussion

(48 Posts)
Acekicker Fri 15-Apr-11 14:37:25

Suggest we discuss it here, rather than hijack allergycakeicing's thread...

Emily - for what it's worth. I have read about it. As I stated in my post I've read studies by the BMJ, assessments by NICE and articles by the Anaphylaxis Campaign. Plus websites by Kinesiologists explaining how they would allegedly 'cure' my child.

I am not being neglectful by refusing to send my child to a Kinesiologist. I'm delighted that you feel it's helped you and your child but it's not for me because I believe in science and empirical medical studies.

It's interesting to note that at least one website that deals with kinesiology to treat allergies, openly admits that it is not basing it on the medical definition of allergy. My son's risk of anaphylaxis if he eats nuts has sod all to do with his 'BioEnergy' system - it's a medically diagnosed, immune response that has solid medical science supporting it.

By all means tell people about the success of your child through kinesiology. It would however be helpful if a) you refrained from suggesting that those of us who won't try kinesiology are borderline neglectful in caring for our children and b) you actually explained a bit more about what allergies your child had, what the kinesiologist did, how the treatment worked etc. How you confirm the treatment had been successful etc.

You keep ordering us all to stop being sheep and find out more and yet you're not exactly being forthcoming with any helpful information - instead you're just slagging off those of us who think differently.

MsScarlett Fri 15-Apr-11 14:39:52

Acekicker - FWIW I think it is a load of tosh too. Absolutely no evidence it works, and no reason why it should!

emilyishere Fri 15-Apr-11 14:53:39

acekicker - although you are angry with me for "slagging off" people, and "ordering" people about, I would be angry with doctors of western medicine who do very little to help those in real need. So what have the doctors done? Given your child an epipen and left you high and dry, sick with worry that your child could be seriously ill or worse, and left you fully responsible for life/death 24 hrs a day. Crap isn't it? Have you noticed that doctors can very rarely "cure" a disease or condition? They are very adept at masking conditions with drugs, but cure? Think about it. No cure for epilepsy, diabetes, heart disease, you name it, it is treated with drugs to manage the condition.

If I had a serious accident and had broken bones and internal injuries, then I would definately trust the medical professionals because of their expertise.

I would be bloody angry (as I was) with the medical profession for handing out drugs with no end in sight of the misery and worry for a life threatening condition. They simply don't have the answers.

All I am saying is - think out of the box. Do some research of your own, not someone else's (like NICE etc). Do your own. I would seriously suggest reading "What Doctors Dont Tell You" It would open your eyes.

emilyishere Fri 15-Apr-11 14:55:20

MsScarlett. Haven't tried it, I take it?

Really, I was actually trying to help on the other thread. I get frustrated when children suffer and there is an answer.

Acekicker Fri 15-Apr-11 15:17:53

I'm sure you were trying to help emily and I'm really pleased that you found your daughter got better after seeing a kinesiologist. What allergies did she have? How severe were they? How did you know they were cured so that you weren't dicing with death giving her the allergens after treatment?

The doctors have done just plenty for me thank you. I've had fantastic support, I'm not sick with worry and my child is not 'seriously ill or worse' - he has an severe allergy and we manage it.

There is ongoing scientific research all the time and with great results

I've told you already I have done research - I'm confused as to why the research I chose to quote are not acceptable research as they're someone else's studies and yet you tell me to read someone else's book and won't share details of your own experience. Someone else's book is good enough for me when it stacks up with your view but other people's reserach doesn't count when it goes against what you believe in...? I even quoted kinesiologists in my OP so you can see I'm not just swallowing what 'western medicine' tells me.

I've come to my own view and it's one which I'm quite happy with, please stop insinuating those of us not rushing to find kinesiologists are letting our children suffer - I can't speak for others but I'm happy that I'm not.

PeachyAndTheArghoNauts Fri 15-Apr-11 15:26:21

I tried it, years ago, and the diet that emergd was so limited that a proper, qualified dietician advised me it would place me and the baby at risk of sever malnutrition.

i think they wanted shot of dairy (fair enough, already is known); gluten; caffeine; meat; potatoes ; toamtoes and salycylates (so a wide range of fruit and veg); oats ; eggs; and otehr stuff on top.

EldonAve Fri 15-Apr-11 15:35:27

kinesiology on quackwatch

Anno Fri 15-Apr-11 15:40:12

They can cure chromosome disorders? Why didn't you say? Now it all makes sense hmm

TamaraBumpdeeay Fri 15-Apr-11 17:27:53

I am confused! Someone suggests using a technic which is considered quackery. She is asked to provide at least some background. She doesn't and just slags off the other side. Which, strangely enough, is what all quacks do.

Whether it is fairy dust or magic water, I would not give a treatment to a child that has not got empirical research to prove that it was safe and efficacious.

nottirednow Fri 15-Apr-11 17:32:16

Message withdrawn

greenbananas Fri 15-Apr-11 17:41:10

Emily, can you point us to any real evidence that kinesiology works? All I can find on the various kinesiology websites I have looked at are unsubstantiated anecdotal stories in which the definitions of 'allergy' seem rather confused.

heliumballoons Fri 15-Apr-11 17:42:00

Emily I have read this thread but not the original and not sure I should from the tone of this one. smile

How could this help me? The mother of a child who has an epi-pen, because the cons pead is concerned about the risk of analphylaxis, who can't pinpoint what the allergy is and who is protecting the child with "drugs" on the basis of medical history/ previous reactions? How can they possibly cure the unknown confused

FWIW your tripe about epilepsy only being treated by drugs is untrue. There is op, but not always the best outcome for the patient. There is also research being done on pancreas transplant for diabetic patients (since they've managed to keep people without a pancreas alive) so yes they do think about 'cure' instead of drugs.............................................but in the meantime I'll be keeping my DS epi-pen to hand....just in case.

MsScarlett Fri 15-Apr-11 17:44:22

Actually I did try it. A bloke put certain substances in glass vials (so no contact with my skin even) against one finger, and some thing on my other finger and apparently this dial thing told him what I was allergic/intolerant to. hmm

Then I followed a boring diet that made me a miserable, dull person for a few weeks that made absolutely no difference whatsoever. I can't believe I bothered, but I was a gullible, in my early twenties and wanted some help clearing up my skin and with my migraines. I'm now a medical student and know better. A good varied balanced diet, exercise and lots of sleep works just fine (I was partying and eating takeaways so don't know why I just didn't look at that). Total waste of time.

In terms of serious allergies, these need to be dealt with by a PROFESSIONAL who knows what they are doing.

Acekicker Fri 15-Apr-11 17:47:06

Strewth nottirednow that's terrifying... thanks for posting though, it's a sobering read for anyone considering AK.

Am guessing that as Dr Brett Stevens didn't spot the signs of anaphylaxis he wasn't a medically qualified doctor...scary that he advertisies his services in a Mother and Baby directory.

nottirednow Fri 15-Apr-11 17:51:05

Message withdrawn

MsScarlett Fri 15-Apr-11 17:51:51

God, just read that article. The poor victim was probably so brain-washed that he didn't want to believe that he was suffering a reaction so probably didn't seek help soon enough...

emilyishere Fri 15-Apr-11 18:39:57

The thing is this, the NHS did not approve of chiropractioners...hey presto! They do now. The NHS did not approve of homeopathy...hey presto! They are considering it now. The NHS did not approve of acupuncture...hey presto! GEuess what??? They do now.

My point being this.... don't just accept what the medics are telling you. Not so long ago, they used techniques that were dangerous because they did not understand about pathogens (ie no hand washing between patients, not washing dirty equipment). Until VERY recently they laughed at the doctor whose theory was that a virus was causing stomach ulcers until he proved it. The medics thought HRT was an excellent drug until they realised that it caused osteoporosis. The medics still think hydrocortisone is a good drug although it thins the skin at the least, and the list goes on and on and on.

Yes, an epipen is essential. But I would prefer the doctor to cure my child.

You all laugh at other ways of dealing with the intricate human body. Why?

You cite ONE example of a death. Yet the NHS kills many through ignorance and damages many (brain damage at birth, negligence, wrong drugs administered etc etc etc).

I urge you to start thinking for yourselves.

scottishmummy Fri 15-Apr-11 18:52:45

start thinking for selves by doing listening to you?is that what you mean?your post just reads as ignore the establishment in a very well they would say that wouldn't they way

people should have a level of inquiry about most things. and by all means question orthodoxies.but dont just assume a position of default position of things we dont understand= alternative therapies work

Acekicker Fri 15-Apr-11 18:55:53

Slagging off the whole of the NHS and medical science isn't really being discussed here though is it emilyishere? If you want to do that go to AIBU.

What we're all talking about is kinesiology and 'curing' allergies. I'll ask my questions again as otherwise you're starting to sound like a shill for AK:

1) What was your daughter allergic to before she saw a kinesiologist?
2) Who diagnosed the allergies initially?
3) What treatment did the kinesiologist perform and how did this treatment work?
4) What was done after the treatment to satisfy you that your daughter had been cured before you introduced (presumably) potentially dangerous allergens back into her life?
5) What allergy testing has your daughter undergone since the treatment? How do you know the treatment has been successful?

EldonAve Fri 15-Apr-11 18:57:37

Chiropracters & homeopathy are also quackery imho

scottishmummy Fri 15-Apr-11 19:00:23

expensive flattery underpinned by fake medical terms and affectation
- treatment
- consultation
- clinic
- use of psuedo-science terms to add authenticity

greenbananas Fri 15-Apr-11 19:04:25

Emily, most of us are thinking for ourselves. I strongly resent the implication that we are all stupid just because we don't think kinesiology is likely to work.

Of course, it's true that the NHS is not perfect and probably never will be. But that does not mean all alternative therapies are better (for example, there is no evidence that homeopathy works any better than placebo). In my (considered and reasonably informed) opinion, treating life-threatening allergies with unproven 'alternative' therapies is both stupid and dangerous.

If I really thought that kinesiology was likely to help DS, then of course I would try it. But I can't find ANY evidence that kinesiology is even vaguely effective. The kinesiology websites I have looked at have basic errors, like confusing allergy with intolerance.

Find me some actual evidence and I will listen to you, I promise.

Acekicker Fri 15-Apr-11 19:04:26

In the spirit of openness as I've asked you direct questions, I'll be up-front about my son's allergy although it's all elsewhere on the boards too:

1) He's allergic to peanuts, there is a 'question mark' against hazelnuts too as he reacted one time to the skin pricks but not on the subsequent visit, next visit is a year off

2) He was diagnosed by a leading paediatric allergy specialist

3) No treatment has been performed to date but like lots of people I'm watching the outcome of Dr Clark's trial with interest

Due to the risk of cross contamination and the 'question mark' over at least one other nut we avoid all nuts. Thankfully he's only had the one reaction which involved mild tongue swelling, hives around the mouth and throat problems. A large dose of Piriton stopped the reaction (he'd had a tiny bit of PB in his mouth which he promptly spat out) and since he was tested we've been epipen carriers.

PeachyAndTheArghoNauts Fri 15-Apr-11 19:53:03

Can't epilepsy also be cured by a ketgenic diet (or rather controlled) in some cases?

There are a lot of alterntaives in my field (autism) and they make me nervous but I have no isues with trying things that pose no risk- such as a well managed diertary plan or vitmain supplementation. however there are also therapies such as chelation that have been implicated in deaths and given the risks of allergies i would place kinesiology firmly in that camp.

I woudln;t chiropracters, know a few people who ahve benefitted and when it's a trained person it's a risk free physical procedure (local GP back home refers direct); homeopathy quackery though.

MsScarlett Fri 15-Apr-11 21:16:46

Emily - FWIW I am a medical student. I have now completed 2 years of intense education, where I have learnt intricately the physiological processes of the body and where they go wrong in the case of disease processes, including allergy - right down to detailed chemical reactions in cells etc. I have also learnt exactly where and how different drugs and therapies correct these processes. Essentially as so much is understood about their actions you can nearly always predict how a therapy will work, but just to make sure their actions are tested in vitro i.e. when replicated in a lab and in vivo i.e. in the body by doing extensive clinical trials that are heavily scrutinised.

Modern medicine might not have all the answers, but those that it does have are proven with the latest research, and perhaps those questions that it can't answer, simply cannot be answered yet? Certain complementary/alternative therapies are recognised to have some validity e.g. acupuncture, so therapies are not dismissed by the medical establishment for the sake of it, just if there is no evidence that they work or if they may indeed be harmful.

There may be failings in the NHS in providing opportunity to diagnose allergies etc, but that is a separate issue and doesn't mean that potentially dangerous alternatives should be sought IMO.

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