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Here are some suggested organisations that offer expert advice on adoption.

Could anyone throw some light on this please?

(23 Posts)
ccccrazy Sun 28-Jun-09 23:11:07

I have a question I thought I'd ask you ladies (and gentlemen if any) since I don't know any adoptive parents. Well I know one but this is about her.

Is it usual for adoptive parents to hide the fact that the baby is adopted? Couple known to OH and me (let me call them Mr. and Mrs. X) announced and faked a pregnancy to their entire family and friends and then had a baby. I did not believe them from the beginning as there were many indications that things didn't add up. But I decided that since it was none of my business I wouldn't react or say anything. Mrs. X even talked about the birth and the fact that her doctor asked her not to breastfeed because of the trauma of delivery etc. hmm. It's been a year now and it's still the same, not only do they keep up the pretence but Mrs. X brings up the pregnancy or birth every time she can. I don't even know why I'm asking this here, I suppose I'm just wondering if there could be a reason for this?

{If you're wondering how I got to know the baby is adopted, they'd told OH from the beginning. But swore him to secrecy and asked him not to even tell me. For his bad luck though I read him a text of his from an unknown number (he asked me to) and it all came out. OH doesn't know their reasons either, he says they are very adamant no one, including the child, should ever know}

ccccrazy Sun 28-Jun-09 23:13:33

There's a lot more I could write but I've kept this as short as possible. Any questions just ask.

LadyGlencoraPalliser Sun 28-Jun-09 23:16:42

No this is not usual at all, in fact it is very strange indeed. I would question how they have managed to do this - if the baby has been legally adopted he or she will eventually realise when they see their birth certificate anyway.

LadyGlencoraPalliser Sun 28-Jun-09 23:19:15

Thinking about it, I can't envisage a scenario in which this could happen. Your friends and family would inevitably know if you were going to the process of being approved as adoptive parents. What does your OH say about where the baby is coming from? Adopting a new born baby is a rare enough occurrance these days anyway.

bran Sun 28-Jun-09 23:22:53

I've heard of this happening but not with a child born in the UK. The social workers are very clear when assessing prospective adoptors that they should be open about the child being adopted. In fact, now that I think about it, I don't see how this could be a legal adoption (assuming you're in the UK) as children are not placed for adoption at birth here.

In Malaysia, where DH is from, this is a more common occurance. They can't judge it exactly but some estimates are that 80% of adoptions there are illegal. What happens is that someone like a priest, imam or doctor will help a pregnant mother find a couple to adopt her child. When the child is born the adoptive couple pick him/her up from the hospital and register the child as their own. It all goes completely under the radar.

ccccrazy Sun 28-Jun-09 23:33:05

Yes it is as bran says. They are resident in the UK but went back home to India to "give birth" to the baby. They also legally adopted the baby there by claiming that the adoptive mother is resident in India and the AF works abroad (I don't know how they did that). Now that the domestic adoption is legally through they want to apply to take the baby out of the country as if they've only just decided to move abroad as a family. One more thing is that the baby's birthday has been changed (she is older by at least a week) by them because she was born before they left the UK to get her. Again, I don't know how this was done. Or maybe the papers carry the correct date but the parents use the false date socially.

Does the birth certificate state that a baby is adopted? I don't know how a deception like that could work in theory, how distressing for the child to find out.

LadyGlencoraPalliser Sun 28-Jun-09 23:38:58

My birth certificate clearly shows that I am adopted - but of course I don't know what the procedure is in India.

TEJQ Mon 29-Jun-09 08:36:02

Very, VERY illegal what they have done if they are UK residents.

It is illegal to adopt in this way in the UK and they are committing fraud and are probably guilty of what could be termed 'baby trafficking'. No one can have checked them out as being suitable adopters.

I assume the child will have Indian nationality and so far an Indian passport?

I'm afraid it may all seem OK now, but you know living your whole life as a lie will weigh incredibly heavily on them as she gets older. If she doesn't turn out how they want/expect or if she isn't as bright or is found to have inherited traits/illnesses, the truth will out, and of course its possible she doesn't even have the same blood group as either of her parents.

I think they have a small time bomb on their hands which will get bigger and heavier as time passes.

Poor child who will find out later in life that the people she should have been able to trust most have built her life on lies and deception.

daisysue2 Mon 29-Jun-09 22:07:34

Yes I think what they have done is highly illegal baby trafficking and that is why they are lying about the birth. They know what they have done is illegal. They have circumnavigated a system of international adoption that is in place to protect children. But I think this is pretty much what David Milliband did to adopt his children by claiming his wife was a US resident.

How did they manage to bring the child back to the UK normally there are quite strong checks at immigration.

LadyGlencoraPalliser Mon 29-Jun-09 23:07:00

There was nothing illegal about David Miliband's adoption as far as I know. His wife is a US citizen; she didn't claim, or need to claim, to be resident in the US in order to adopt there.
The situation the OP is describing is very different.

Kewcumber Tue 30-Jun-09 10:15:20

U.S. adoption laws allow its citizens to adopt while living abroad - his wife is a citizen (as others have said).

UK law asays if you are UK resident then you must be approved here fisrt.

They run the risk that the embassy spot what going on and refuce to give the child entry clearance into to th eUK.

SolidGoldBrass Tue 30-Jun-09 10:18:35

Whether or not they have done something illegal (which does sound likely) they are being stupid and doing something that is going to harm the child. Nothing is worse than finding out in later life that you have been lied to all your life by the people closest to you. People rarely recover from this and the relationship with the family is usually utterly wrecked.

ccccrazy Tue 30-Jun-09 11:25:47

OH had tried to convince them to be truthful about things (to family and friends that is) but they were adamant. I did suggest that he buys them some books about adoption so that they'll see that what they're doing is wrong. I think they feel that because they got the child almost newborn it'll be the same as a biological child. OH is reluctant to seem too interfering though. I can see his point but there is a child involved here.

TEJQ you are right about the ticking timebomb. Mr. X has been flying back so often, for 2 or 3 weeks at a time, that I was asking OH how come he gets so much time off work. Turns out he's told his workplace that Mrs. X went into premature labour while on holiday and she and the baby were so ill that they've been advised not to fly. So his company has been giving him leave on compassionate grounds as they think he's visiting his poorly wife and child who are stuck there hmm. He needs to be at some of the court hearings so that's the reason he was going. And because of the ticket price he feels it's not worth rushing back so stays a couple of weeks. He is jeopardising so much by lying.

Kew - I think that may happen. They are however hopeful that they'll be here in a couple of months once approval to take the child abroad has been obtained from the Indian court.

{I have changed some details slightly so that the couple would not be identifiable, for eg. India could be Pakistan etc.}

Kewcumber Tue 30-Jun-09 14:15:00

AS an adoptive parent I can empathise (particularly in the eary stages) with teh desire to "pretend" that this fantastic child is yours and that pesky birth family are nothing more than figments of the imagination.

But they can't change the truth that thier child was originally born to another family. They will always know that, and their child should also know that.

Do they think that being an adoptive parent is somehow Parenting Lite? If they are teh same ethnicity as the child they needn't admit it to anyone except each other and teh child, its no-one else's business.

What are they going to do 20 years down the line when its discovered that blood groups don;t match or DNA doesn;t match etc. This child will discover that her (hopefully) adored parents lied about something so fundamental.

I don't see what you can acheive except to encourage them to understand that adoptive children have a right to as much information as is available, denyng that right does not make for good parenting.

beemail Tue 30-Jun-09 22:35:41

Would agree with others that the real issue is about being honest with your child but there are also serious considerations here - the penalty for bringing children into the country illegally can be as harsh as imprisonment. It sounds as though this would be illegal if I have understood correctly.
It doesn't sound as though the couple know very much about the procedures here or have chosen to ignore them and are hoping to get away with it. I think it's unlikely they'll manage it. Birth certs here and in India the other country with which I am familiar would both state that the child was adopted if proper procedures followed..........I don't know about other countries and I appreciate we don't know where this couple are. If they need to get a visa to get back here they will have some explaining to do - I just don't see how they could get away with it.
I think they are running some serious risks here both legally and in other ways mentioned here. Please let us know how they get on.

oldnewmummy Fri 03-Jul-09 06:12:03

They could do it in Singapore. There's no pre-checking of adoptive parents, and after the (legal) adoption a new birth certificate is issued with the adoptive parents' names and it doesn't say the child was adopted.

A lot of people here (Singapore) DON'T tell their kids. Social services makes adoptive parents attend a workshop on why it's good to tell them, but a lot don't or wait till the child's a teenager.

(I should add that we obviously intend to tell our son, and it's bloody obvious anyway).

They're playing with fire, as if the child finds out some other way he/she'd be devastated.

madlentileater Fri 03-Jul-09 19:53:02

maybe there are cultural issues here.
I know it's received wisdom in the UK now to be very open about adoption, but hasn't always been so and maybe if adoption has different cultural meaning in this other country that's why the parents have behaved this way. However if they are planning to raise child in UK surely they should consider that?

Kewcumber Sun 05-Jul-09 19:58:38

I would dispute that its a cultural issue though as even in the UK we used to keep adoption secret in many cases. Teh reason it is not the case now is because if the vollume s of research that showed it to not be in the best interest of the child to maintain secrecy. Often it came out anyway, someone always knows and lets it slip.

mY aunt was 11 when My grandmother let slip in an argument that she had been adopted [ouch emoticon]

KristinaM Sat 11-Jul-09 09:29:30

if they are normally resident in the Uk then they have to comply with British procedures

what they are doing is illegal

i knwo of another family who did soemthing simliar

beemail Sat 11-Jul-09 13:14:30

What happened to them Kristina? Did they manage to get their child into the country? My feeling was that this would be extremely difficult/impossible now although there have been cases in the past.

KristinaM Sat 11-Jul-09 21:26:00

yes they got the child into the country by claiming he/she was a niece/nephew coming on a visit. yes, a baby of a few weeks old. hmm hmm

if it wasn't for the fact that ccrazys case was a year ago i woudl have thought that this was the same family. it sounds identical

i have no idea how they managed it as i know of so many legitimate adopters who have done all the paperwork and STILL have terrible problems getting a visa for their child angry

ccccrazy Sun 12-Jul-09 00:04:19

I don't know if they have done anything illegal in the UK yet, as from my understanding it becomes illegal only at the point they apply for clearance to bring the baby in? I am not sure of that. They have definitely done something illegal in their home country though, apparently adoptive parents who are not resident there have a much more difficult and longer procedure to follow. One of the conditions of the normal domestic adoption there is supposed to be that the child cannot be taken out of the country. So I think they face two hurdles, first getting clearance from the local authorities to take the baby out and then getting entry clearance to the UK. They do say that it's not going to be a problem, obviously I don't know the technicalities of how they're going to do it. OH doesn't feel comfortable about asking them those details as it looks like it's not going to be straightforward/legal. I will update how it goes with them.

KristinaM Sun 12-Jul-09 09:29:47

I am not a lawyer, but as i understand the law here, anyone normally resident in the Uk who wishes to adopt from overseas must first become an approved adopter.

To do this they should be approved by their local social services who may carry out the home study themselves or ask another agency or independent social worker to do it for them. An family can also be approved by a voluntary adoption agency.

from what the op says i am not clear that this family have been through this process in either country, whereas British citizens resident here need to meet the legal requiremenst for adoption in BOTH countries

some countries such as the US allow their citizens who live overseas to adopt through their system while living abroad.

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