Early permanence - FtA/ Concurrent Planning

[lorrylorryvanvan]

Hi there - totally new to anything adoption based but DH and I are thinking about it and I'm interested to hear some real life experiences.

We have birth DS (3.5yrs) and for various reasons - including a birth injury I sustained - we agreed not to pursue extending our family through another biological child as if the injury worsened after another child I could be left with ongoing issues such as double incontinence etc.. Discussed surrogacy v v briefly but as we're not infertile (that I know of) I don't Think that option is really open to us. So, we've decided to gather info about adoption to consider this route further.

Bit about us - both 30yrs old. Own home. Married 5 years, together 10. Primary teacher and engineer. Both parents live locally and great support network which we obviously already utilise for DS. We realise we're v lucky and think we could offer a loving home to another child.

Our local area offers (and is promoting) early permanence routes such as Foster to Adopt and concurrent planning. I'm aware of the fact that both have a risk that the child could end up back with birth parents and that we would be required to support contact sessions etc during the fostering element but aside from that I'm finding it v hard to get any other helpful information. Anyone have experience or knowledge about this area?

We have registered interest with LA and they've logged our details to invite us along to the next information evening but this isn't for a while apparently so I've tasked myself with doing my own research in the interim. Any info welcome!

[Italiangreyhound]

lorrylorryvanvan there are loads of threads on here about looking into adoption so do take a look at other people's threads. The number of adopters posting here is relatively small so do not be discouraged if you don't get a lot of replies quickly. It tends to be more of a 'slow burner' in the adoption threads than other parts of Mumsnet.

I am afraid I do not know about foster to adopt or concurrent planning. but we did adopt with a birth child. My birth child was 9 when our son joined us aged 3.

I'd be quite careful what you tell your birth child if you do go down the concurrent planning route, I'd take advice and might say we are looking after baby X and only say he or she is going to be a permanent feature once you know that is the case.

[Italiangreyhound]

Other than that I would say:
build your support network
de-clutter (especially once you know the age of the incoming child)
save, save, save up for a rainy day
have a nice holiday as the three of you before new child comes if you want to

And for me most important of all don't pass on your son's things without his permission, toys, clothes, furniture...

Don't assume you can just pass on things he knows as his to a new child. With a birth child you 'may' do this and not expect any issues, in adoption it may not be a cause of issues - well it was an issue for us.

Maybe it was also because our older child have been an 'only' child for nine years.

So for example if you adopt a 3 year old when your son is 6, or whatever, although there would only be a three year gap, your birth child would have been the sole recipient of your love and care, attention etc, (and has probably been the sole user of toys, equipment etc) in the home. So it may be an age gap thing instead of the adoption thing.

Good luck and feel free to ask anything you want to.

[Mumtolittlesausage]

We did foster2adopt. It's tough as it is unknown as to the outcome of the child in your care. While most cases to turn into adoption there is still a chance it wont and baby will go to birth family, not necessarily birth parents it their wider family. You need to consider if you can put your birth child through that possibility. Yes you will be expected to take the baby to contact with birth parents as well which can be tough. For us it was tough as birth parents often did not show up or cancelled at the last minute meaning we were left sitting in a contact centre car park in all weather's with a 3 month old baby. It took around 7 months for it to be agreed that baby was to be placed for adoption as family members kept being put forward for assessment but non were suitable. Despite the negatives it was the best thing we did and wouldn't have had it any other way

[Maggie178]

Hi I did Foster to adopt. I also have one birth child. Initially the social workers discouraged us from fta and we weren't approved for it at panel but when a relinquished baby came along they asked us to Foster to adopt them and sorted out approval.
Baby came home straight from hospital at ten days old my birth child was almost three.
First few months were hell. Baby was withdrawing from drugs, birth child was jealous, and a family member was considering coming forward also contact had to be maintained.
Took a year to get adoption order.
Wouldn't change a thing. My kids are amazing.
My adopted child does struggle with some things and it can be tough. But he's also very loving and cheeky.

[Thepinklady77]

I have vast experience of concurrent care, both personally (my DH and I fostered a little baby for 9 months through concurrent care and supported her rehabilitation home) and through my work. Despite supporting a rehabilitation of a baby that we loved very much I am still a big advocator for it because it is so child centred. I will share my thoughts but I am sorry it is long!
F2a is a form or early permanence. Early permanence is really about placing a child in what has the potential to be their forever home at the earliest opportunity, ideally at birth or as close after birth as possible. Early permanence is still relatively new in many LA in the United Kingdom and has stemmed from what has been practice for many years in America, although there it is not always with young babies. There it is used with older children also who enter the care system later in life. Some LA's here in the uk have taken various forms of early permanence and have used them and changed them to suit their needs and policy. Therefore when you are starting out on the journey of considering it you really do need to establish with your LA what form they use.

The two main forms are f2a and concurrency:

F2A is the least risky. In essence it is used when the LA have made the best interests decision of adoption. They have carried out pre-birth assessments or early assessments and have decided that due to various factors (such as, this is baby number four and all previous babies have been removed and are in care or adopted, nothing significant has changed in birth families lives since, so carrying a full parental assessment is not appropriate) therefore adoption will become the permanence plan for the baby. They are fairly certain they have all the evidence that will get a placement order in court. So they place the baby with foster carers who are also approved adopters (f2a). The baby is fostered for a short time usually around 3-4 months while they carry out the legal requirements to secure a placement order to officially match the carers as adopters. The risk of the child returning home lies mainly in some suitable kinship carers popping up and being assessed as suitable to care for the baby or the judge not agreeing with the the assessment but the latter being very rare I believe. Therefore I think around 98-99% of all these cases lead to adoption.

CONCURRENCY though is a very different option. Like f2a the LA's will have identified pre-birth or early birth that the child is likely to end up adopted. However, unlike the previous option there may have been some changes in circumstances or motivation on the part of birth family to parent this child and therefore a full parenting assessment needs to be carried out. The baby needs to remain in care until this is complete and the social workers may still believe that it is highly unlikely that the parents will successfully complete the assessment and be able to have their child returned but a real and meaningful opportunity must be given to them. So in order to secure the early permanence for the child should adoption become the best interest decision the baby is placed with foster cares who are also approved adopters while the assessment is carried out. Two plans for the child are being pursued concurrently (hence the name) rehabilitation home to birth family or adoption. This assessment usually takes around 6 months to complete although in some cases the birth family drop out before the 6 months is completed and allow adoption to become the plan sooner. During the assessment the child will have contact 2-3 times a week with the family and the carers will usually be expected to transport the child to and from this contact and do a short 5-10 min handover to the parents with a social worker always present. The carers come to know the birth family quite well throughout the process which does help with life story work with the child if they go on to be adopted. After the assessment is completed the child will either return home and the carers play an important role in supporting that plan or a placement order is gained and they are adopted by the carers. Around 90% of concurrent cases lead to adoption. This as you can see is significantly lower than f2a.

I have discovered that many people are not aware of the differences and often consider it all as fairly risk free and one in the same. In the early days of exploring adoption social workers can often glaze over f2a in order to get people interested and it is much further down the assessment process that some of this becomes clear and by then so much has been invested in heading down this track that it becomes a shock to discover perhaps it is concurrency really that will be used and that there are significant risks. I feel it is better to know at the beginning the differences and be able to ask clearly of the LA what form of early permanence they use to establish the real risks so that people can make an informed decision as to whether it is right for them.

As I said at the beginning concurrent care and foster to adopt is very child centred. You have to go into it because you believe in getting the right long term outcome for the child and not for you as a family. You have to know your own strength and whether ultimately you would be able to support the rehabilitation of a child should it be deemed the best interest of the child. Some will say don’t put that on a birth child. I know a family who supported a child returning home with an older birth child. She was fine with it. She was simply told that they were just looking after her for a while while her parents were helped to learn to look after her. Permanency and adoption was never mentioned. If and when it had moved to adoption they would have prepared her for that. I think it is all about the child’s initial expectations in how they cope with it. Feel free to pm me if you have any questions or want to hear a little more of our experience.

[drspouse]

My friend did FtA with an older child (adopted - not biologically related to the younger child) and they told the older child they were looking after the baby because the baby's parents couldn't.

[Mooey89]

Hi,
Not an adopter but I’ve been looking into it and I’ve been specifically looking into foster2adopt - also have a birth son.
AimmeeVlog on YouTube has adopted traditionally and also done F2A with her second and her videos are really informative

For me, if we went for it, we would be telling DS (who is 6) that we were looking after baby whilst parents learn look after them (or something) then if all goes to plan would tell him that they were unable to so they are staying in our family.

The main considerations as far as I can see is:
As I understand it you are a foster carer - so whilst you are entitled to fostering allowance, you aren’t necessarily entitled to ‘adoption leave’ from work, so it’s something to discuss with your employer

You have to facilitate contact with BIrth family , at whatever schedule the court dictates

The small but very real risk of return to birth family

Likely to be a number of unknowns because baby will so young.

I also don’t think you get very much notice at all! In Aimmee’s Vlog she says she had a call the day before to say baby had been born and they couldn’t even tell her the sex 😱

I do think it offers so many positives though it’s a route we’re really interested in at the moment.

[Thepinklady77]

@mooney89 anyone doing foster to adopt or any form of early permanency is entitled to claim adoption leave and pay at point of placement. The law changed in April 2015. If company policies do not reflect this then an individual should take it up with HR. This government document should help any company to update their policy accordingly.assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/419080/bis-15-259-changes-to-adoption-leave-and-pay-from-5-april-2015-technical-guidance-for-employers.pdf?fbclid=IwAR3aNvwnQFKJ1p4N61Iqv7eBbWDrmRFTSUbz3a3KmywEN5ULgAOSF0QB0wA

While during the fostering stage carers would get paid a fostering allowance but also claim adoption pay (statutory and any enhanced payments a company offers).

[Thepinklady77]

Sorry the link I posted above did not post correctly. I don’t know how to hyperlink but if you copy and paste below into a browser it should link you in.

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/419080/bis-15-259-changes-to-adoption-leave-and-pay-from-5-april-2015-technical-guidance-for-employers.pdf

[stucknoue]

My friend is currently fostering her second child from the same bm, first child she has already formally adopted. First child was placed aged 2 in the traditional adoption method but youngest was placed straight from the special care baby unit, planned before delivery (drug addicted bm, chaotic life).

Adoption provides the possibility of a great life full of opportunities for some of the most vulnerable kids in society but be aware most children are in care for a reason, very few are given up in the U.K. voluntarily, certainly nothing like in the American movies.

[lorrylorryvanvan]

Thank you all so much for your help. I'll certainly check out the vlog you mentioned too. I've been lsitening to some adoption podcasts on my commute to work (The Adoption - a BBC4 podcast is very good if anyone is looking for adoption resources) as I want to ensure our eyes are wide open before we make any formal steps down this long process.

With F2A we have always agreed that we would think of it as purely foster until and unless the order is placed. This is obviously easier to say, but I feel our mindset is clear on this. We would tell DS (who would be 4/5 yrs old at the earliest) that we're just looking after baby while it's mum/dad get help to learn how to care for it. If later down the line we were in the position where baby is placed for adoption we would then revisit this with DS. We are obviously very aware of making this process as transparent for DS and making sure he feels secure and involved.

I checked with my work policy and it supports enhanced adoption pay and leave from placement date (so during the foster period) so financially I know we could support the F2A/concurrency model.

The main worry for me is about medical issues and other unknowns not being identifiable in such a young baby. However, DH is of the opinion that this is sometimes the case with biological children too. We all hope for a completely perfect and healthy child, but as children grow up some may have developmental, emotional or physical limitations in both biological children or adopted children (he works with young children daily, and many of whom are in care proceedings as he works in a v deprived area). My worry is that adopted babies are statistically more likely to suffer from effects of substance abuse and I admit to not being fully aware of the extent of these effects at the moment (I'm researching this more, but personal experiences would be really helpful if anyone is willing to share)

[Maggie178]

My child did have alot of drug exposure I can pm about my experience with them if you like. However my experience is limited as they are only two years so can't tell you long term outcomes.

[drspouse]

I do find it interesting that people say "if you adopt a baby you won't know the long term outcomes, if you adopt a two year old you have a better idea" as our DS was a dream baby and lovely young toddler and the real difficulties started after he was 2.

[lorrylorryvanvan]

What types of behaviour or health concerns became apparent in your child after 2 @drspouse?

[Mooey89]

@Thepinklady77
That is so helpful thank you!

[Thepinklady77]

Op you may want to read the primal wound by Nancy verrier. Drug and alcohol exposure is not the only aspect that effects a baby in the womb. It is obviously the big seen factor and certainly plays a bit part but exposure to domestic violence while in the womb, high stress levels of birth mum during pregnancy will also increase the cortisol levels of the baby. Poor pre-natal health and care, which often goes with a child who is likely to be taken into care, is a big contributor to ongoing difficulties. Attachment disorder/difficulties are still very much prevalent in a baby removed at birth and placed immediately when adoptive parents. Your DH is right to a point, yes we take the risk with birth children in terms of SEN and deal with whatever is thrown our way but all the factors mentioned above and more does considerably increase the chance that additional needs will develop in an adopted child. I think as long as you acknowledge this and go in with your eyes open, being aware of where you can go to for support when needs emerge you will deal with it.

[drspouse]

lorry he has ADHD and likely dyspraxia which leads to poor behaviour, impulsivity, and struggling at school and home. He may meet the criteria for as ASD when he's older, and he's very anxious which again means he's struggling to behave and integrate at school.
The only tiny warning sign was that he was slightly late to walk.
He also has epilepsy which can be diagnosed at any age but in his case he was 4.

[Bearfamily1010]

We have very recently gone through concurrency (LO is 6 months and was placed with us at 10 days old) and it is a very emotional experience, although we had a relatively straightforward case.

LO was exposed to alcohol and potentially drugs in the womb but was born with only mild withdrawal symptoms. So far meeting all milestones ahead of schedule but we are very aware of the potential problems in the future. It’s important to have your eyes open all the time for potential issues, but is also hugely rewarding parenting from as young as possible. Watching our LO grow and develop with a little personality emerging has been undoubtedly a wonderful and bonding experience for our family.

[Mooey89]

@Bearfamily1010 do you mind me asking did you have to take LO for contact? What was the frequency? How did you find that emotionally?

[Bearfamily1010]

@Mooey89 We didn’t have contact as BM abandoned LO straight after birth and did not want any contact. This was also very difficult emotionally as it was a situation we had not really prepared for. We have a lot of empathy with BM and feel sad to have missed out on what we feel is a great opportunity to meet them properly. We would like to be able to answer questions for our LO as they get older and this was an important aspect of concurrency for us.

Friends of ours that we have made along the way that have had contact didn’t find it too bad. One came close to a rehabilitation home, which was obviously much more difficult.

Whatever happens, concurrency is emotionally difficult, but then I believe that adoption is too just in different ways (we have done both). If I could go back I would do it all again in a heartbeat. The positives are monumental and for us far exceed any potential negatives.

[Binky99]

All of this information is great...thanks for the wise words. We are at the end of stage 1 and about to start stage 2....we are thinking about EP and also have a birth child age 6.
Does anyone know the expectations about child care. I’m planning to take a year off....then my DH was going to take over part time care....are we allowed to use family as child care or is it assumed one parent is home full time for a set amount of time/ years or does it relate to whether you are fostering or adopting?
Thanks

[drspouse]

My friend took a fairly standard year off, some just as unpaid leave (it was before the new rule).
Her DC went to a CM and then to nursery.

[Binky99]

Thank you.....next ask.
Does anyone know if f2a is counted as adoption with regards to adoption pay....will I be paid by my work whist we are waiting for the adoption to be approved?

[Thepinklady77]

Yes this was answered further up thread - see my link on my post further up thread.

[purple2020]

Hi everyone

I was just wondering if you could help clarify something for me. I understand both Local Authority and Voluntary Agencies offer concurrent planning however is Foster to Adopt offered by both or only the LA?

Thanks