Section 20

[HammerToFall]

My ten year old daughter has been accommodated on a section 20 today. Just needed to say it

[RubberTreePlant]

Voluntarily then?

There must be a huge back story. Do you want to talk about it?

[HammerToFall]

Yes voluntary. She has been refusing to come home from school and running away constantly but that is just the thin end of the wedge. She is making herself and us and her sibling really unsafe. She doesn't want to be in the family she hates us and would rather live with a stranger. I know right at this minute deep down she will be terrified but she would rather feel that than say she wants to
Come home.

[RubberTreePlant]

Is there a plan? You must be a bit in shock.

[darkriver19886]

Hello @hammertofall,
I can remember that horrible shock. Do you have anyone to support you? Is your social worker working on a plan to have her returned to you?

Is there a reason why she doesn't want to come home and that she is terrified?

I don't have much advice but, I want you to know that your not alone.

[Evidencebased]

I can't imagine what you must be going through, Hammer

The emotional and family situation must be the huge issue.
In case it's of any slight help, here's some legal info.

I'll be thinking of you. Hope a way through emerges.

[Moominmammaatsea]

@HammerToFall, so sorry to hear of the turbulent times your family is experiencing. It’s not clear from your original post if you’re an adopter whose child has been re-accommodated in the care system or if you’re a birth parent who has ‘voluntarily’ signed your child over via a S20. I think many of us here may have donned our hard hats in anticipation of multiple posts about the perceived wrongs about ‘forced’ adoption as the vast majority of us are probably adoptive parents of children removed from their families of origin.

A little more information could probably help us in signposting you to appropriate agencies.

[HammerToFall]

I am an adoptive parent. We have fought and fought. It were left with no choice when she refuses to come home. No plans as yet. We have a meeting next week. We want her home desperately but have to put her first and she really needs some help

[IsThisValidEnough]

This is a terrible situation for you all. Has she been with you for long? Have you received any help through school?

[HammerToFall]

She has been with us nine years. School
Have been fantastic. It has just got to the point steadily where she does what she wants when she wants and nothing we say or do has any effect. She pulled a knife on me last week and everyone is just so unsafe.

It's the worst
Thing I've ever had to do and al
I want to do is go and get her but I know that for her we have to stay strong and see it through. We are hoping and praying she gets the support she needs and that we can rehabilitate her back into the home.

[Moominmammaatsea]

@HammerToFall, just racing out the door to get to an appeal panel hearing for support for my elder adoptive daughter, so just a quick message to advise you to seek help on the AUK parents of older adoptees forum - there are several wise folks who’ve been in your shoes, some of whom continue to parent at a distance.

I would also recommend the Potato Group for similar reasons (strictly speaking, it’s for parents of adopted teens, but I know there is some flexibility on membership).

Big hugs to you for now. I’ll check in later to see how you are.

[Moominmammaatsea]

Hi @ HammerToFall, how are you this evening, are you managing to eat and sleep and function as a human being? How about your other half and your other DC?

I’ve not experienced what you’re going through to the same degree, but I have had major and ongoing anger issues with my 11-year-old, who was adopted as a baby, and, to be perfectly honest, I have fully researched S20s and given much headspace to where my personal boundaries lie vis-a-vis violence and harmful and threatening behaviours.

I think puberty is a real pinch-point for our children and, from what I’ve read on the AUK forums, placements can unravel quickly in the preteen and teen years, given the educational and societal pressures on our children, combined with the effect on relationships of hormones and our young people’s increasing awareness and confusion about their personal identities and their birth family stories.

Experienced adopters on the AUK forums talk of genetics and epigenetics and of how are children are almost preprogrammed to recreate the chaos and dysfunction from which they were removed in the first place.

I really hope you are getting appropriate support and that you are surrounded with love by those who most care for you. I also hope your agency is stepping up to help you in your hour of darkness?

You may be feeling guilty now and worrying that you’ve “failed”, but, as an impartial outsider, I’m pleased that you and your other family members are safe from being threatened with a knife.

We do the very best we can but sometimes, sadly, our best may not be enough.

[HammerToFall]

I have spoken to he tonight. She is so very angry but still doesn't want to come home. All
She wants to do is live in the park. I don't know what to do. Social services keep ringing asking for my advice as they are there nearly all the time. The foster carers they have placed her with are 70 years old. They won't cope. She won't settle but won't say she will
Come home. I don't know what to do

[Moominmammaatsea]

@HammerToFall, I know you’re in the thick of it and probably can’t think straight, but if SS are phoning and asking for your advice, then it would seem that they want to move forwards working with you as the parents.

It sounds like your daughter has gone into emergency foster care, so the criteria for placement finding will be less about an instant perfect match and more about a safe bed and pair of hands for a night or two. Depending on how this all pans out, I’m sure that due consideration will be given to the right sort of longer-term placement, if your daughter needs to live away from home for a little longer.

[HammerToFall]

Oh they do. This is a section 20 placement. She hasn't been removed from me. I want to do everything I can to help but she is just not safe at home for various reasons but the main is flight risk. I just want to go and get her but I know that isn't the right thing

[sgnittes]

OP what does their clinical psychologist/psychiatrist say, in terms of why the behaviour has escalated over the years (I remember your previous posts) and what help your dc needs now?

@moominmamaatsea the way you have described teens etc, it sounds as though this is the majority of adoptions, would you have any idea? And you have referred to the groups for parents of teenagers, is it a large group? And in relation to the genetic issue, is the fact that the dc are sort of pre programmed as you say seen as a sort of fait accompli, meaning there is very little you can do about it? Thank you.

[IsThisValidEnough]

Experienced adopters on the AUK forums talk of genetics and epigenetics and of how are children are almost preprogrammed to recreate the chaos and dysfunction from which they were removed in the first place.

Is this backed up by scientific, credible research? I get that a certain amount is nature but I also believe a certain amount is nurture. To believe that they are pre programmed makes it pretty soul destroying to be honest. Happy to be corrected if the research is valid.

[Ted27]

@Hammertofall, how are things after the weekend? Your SW sounds useless. I was wondering if you had had an assessment from somewhere like familyfutures.


@sgnittes and @isthisvalidenough its an interesting debate but maybe it shouldn't hijack the thread.

What I will say if its any comfort to HammerToFall, I don't think its inevitable that adoptions break down if you hit problems in this pre-teen/teen period. We had a very challenging time when my son was 10/ 11 to 13. What mattered was getting the right intervention at the right time with the right therapist. Thats whats so hard to get. We were lucky, we got what we needed when we needed it. He is coming up for 15 now, we came through it. He has a positive future ahead of him and we remain a family.

[sgnittes]

I didn't want a debate or to hijack the thread, I was asking for more info about what a poster had said because i think it is relevant to the OP.

@isthisvalidenough the research which I think was being referred to (I am not certain) says that we are all born with certain predispositions but that with the right intervention things can be completely turned around for the children - as far as I know all research says things can be turned around with the right intervention - but like @ted27 has said What mattered was getting the right intervention at the right time with the right therapist and I exactly agree with That's whats so hard to get at the moment.

[Moominmammaatsea]

@HammerToFall, how are you today? I hope you are getting access to proper support for you, your DH & your other DC?

I’m really glad that @Ted27 is posting on this thread, and is giving reassurance that there can be really positive outcomes, given the right help.

@sgnittes and @isthisvalidenough, I think Ted is right and it would be inappropriate to continue the debate here and hijack Hammer’s support thread. I’m happy to respond by PM or I’m happy to reply on a new thread. I will qualify by saying that I’m not a ‘expert’ on adoption, only an ‘expert’ on my two non-sibling adopted children.

Sending you all best wishes @HammerToFall

[sgnittes]

@moominmammaatsea I would be very grateful for a PM answering the various q I had - thank you very much indeed.

The main purpose of my first post was to ask the OP what the psychologist/psychiatrist involved so far has said, both in terms of what has happened and why, and also what they have said in terms of what is needed going forward.

OP how is everything?

[PopcornZoo]

Please could you start a new thread sgnittes ? I am sure a lot of other people are interested as well (I am) :)

[sgnittes]

That is fine, have done so.

OP I hope you come back, the other topic is now off thread.

[HammerToFall]

An update - dd came home and I have got the head one adoption and portfolio holder for social services involved. CAHMS are still insisting she doesn't come under their remit so social services are looking for an alternative to assess her and find out exactly what is going on. They have also found a short break carer for her although getting her there will be a nightmare. However we need to have a break every couple of weeks or we will
Crumble.

She is flipping in and out of personalities and is dissociated most is the time. We are trying to be very calm and deal with each personality as it comes and using PACE to deal with each issue. She hasn't tried absconding again but she is still pretty violent towards me when her angry character comes out.

It's absolutely appalling that there is no help for her. If she was 18 there would be all the help in the world. It makes me so sad to see her in survival brain constantly, so hyper vigilant and full of anxiety. Her mouth is so sore from biting anything she can get hold of as she has to have something in her mouth but won't use her chewllery. Her nails and skin around them are so sore where she has bitten them and her arms are full of scratches where she does it without even realising.

School can't cope with her and they send her home nearly every day - she is currently fast asleep as she couldn't calm down enough to sleep until four this morning.

I'm just praying that we get some help and someone somewhere knows what is going on with her.

[HammerToFall]

Just to clarify she wasn't returned with a plan. She escaped from the foster carers and was wondering round the estate asking people to borrow their phones to ring me. EDT (as this was a Saturday) said well we can't deal with it so you will have to go pick her up which we did. It was an absolute shambles. I dread to think what could have happened for she had asked the wrong person to borrow their phone -it makes my blood run cold.

[darkriver19886]

Oh, so she has DID? I am so sorry. Its unfortunately very frustrating that she is not being helped now as recovery rates for children with DID are a lot better than when adults are diagnosed.

I live with this but, I wasn't diagnosed officially diagnosed until two years ago. How much does she remember between each switch? Is there any alters reasonable you can appeal to?

Can I also advise that you buy here a journal and when she is ready to talk ask her to write in it as it may help communication between parts.

Here is a couple of links-
dissociation.co.uk
www.pods-online.org.uk/
www.firstpersonplural.org.uk/

they might be able to signpost you to someone who could help. Unfortunately, even as an adult, I have had to go private to access help with my DID as there isn't a lot out there and many professionals don't believe in the disorder in this country.