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Has she been adopted?

(32 Posts)
ginasfs Tue 21-Jun-16 12:36:00

Hi I'm not sure if this is the correct topic to post on but here goes. . .

My DH has a child from a previous relationship. The child is 10, he has never met the child. He was never allowed access by the mother and then they moved across the country. My DH has paid child support from the day the child was born totalling around the £17,000 mark about now. We recently found out that the child has the same last name as their 'stepfather' who they have known to be their father since they were 2. We have also been told by mutual acquaintances that the child was adopted by the stepfather years ago. My DH name isn't on the birth certificate and the child never took his name. Could the child have been adopted without the consent of my DH and without him knowing? And if that is possible how can we find out for sure?

UnderTheNameOfSanders Tue 21-Jun-16 21:53:20

I think that as he's not named on the birth certificate he doesn't automatically have parental responsibility.
Which I suppose could mean that step father could apply to adopt with birth mother claiming no contact from birth father, or even that she 'doesn't know' who father is.

On the other hand, they could just be using the surname for convenience, or could have changed the surname without adoption, again not needing birth dad's permission as not on certificate.

I would be pretty hacked off to have been paying child support if child does turn out to have been adopted though. I would almost consider suing to get it back.

No idea if there is an easy way to check if child has been adopted, though I guess applying for parental responsibility would force it out into the open??

(This is all guess work, I don't have any proper knowledge).

scarlets Tue 21-Jun-16 21:57:59

This could be complex. Perhaps you should see a family lawyer. If the child has had a different legal father for a number of years then that money might have been obtained illegally. Using a different surname means nothing though.

ginasfs Thu 23-Jun-16 10:11:31

Yes I think we need to see a family lawyer for sure. I believe my DH would have no parental responsibility though as he's not on the birth certificate and was never married to the mother. I'm not sure whether the payment of child support would give him any parental responsibility at all though?

MypocketsarelikeNarnia Thu 23-Jun-16 12:11:31

Surely if her father's views have not been sought any adoption wouldn't be legal?

sharksinthegrass Thu 23-Jun-16 14:31:31

As far as I know PR and maintenance are entirely separate. I know someone paying maintenance who is having to apply for PR as not on birth cert.

Jessbow Sun 26-Jun-16 21:07:46

Legally you can call yourself (and your child ) anything you like as long as it is not with intent to defraud/deceive.

My bro's ex wife reverted to her maiden name, and changed the boys name to match her name, with not a word to my brother, who jointly raised the child until he was 4 .

All perfectly legal. Same neph is about to marry and will marry in the mothers maiden name, not his 'proper' name.

Hurts his dad like you wouldn't believe but zilch he can do about it.

Kr1stina Tue 28-Jun-16 06:06:11

You don't need a lawyer to check if he's been adopted. You just look up the general register of births for the child's name. If you can see and order a copy of his original birth certificate, he's not been adopted. Because once a child is adopted, you cannot order this document as it has been superseded by another, called an extract from the adopted childrens register . I'm not even sure if you can still see the first one online if an adoption order has been granted .

If the child has been adopted, it's possible that his mother has committed perjury . If your husband wasn't contacted and asked for his permission , that can only be because his ex said that she didn't know who the father was. And she can hardly say that honestly while the child gets maintenance each month from him .

So it's much more likely that the child is just using his step fathers name .

I have to say that I think it's very odd that your husband was so keen to see his child and yet he has never made any applications to the court to see his child . " moving across the county " is hardly an obstacle , unless you live in the USA or Russia . It makes him sounds very heartless TBH

I think it's pretty sad that your concern here is about the money and not about his son / your step son who you have never met . And never intend to meet .

If you do not yet have children with this man, I'd think very hard before doing so . The best predictor of his future behaviour is his past behaviour. If you split up , he may treat any children he has with you in the same way .

Kr1stina Tue 28-Jun-16 06:09:26

Jess - if you nephew is about to get married, he is over 16 and old enough to have made his own choice of names . So if he's getting married using his mother's name and not his fathers, he has done it legally by deed poll or similar .

Lookatyourwatchnow Tue 28-Jun-16 06:10:49

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Kr1stina Tue 28-Jun-16 06:11:14

Sorry Gina I just saw that it's your step daughter and not your step son

Laselva Tue 28-Jun-16 06:22:14

I have been NC with my birth dad from a very young age. My mum married my step dad and had my name changed to match their surname, my step dad never adopted me, I have a birth certificate which shows my change of name (I was 8 at the time). This was the 1980s bit all perfectly legal.

eyelashsmash Tue 28-Jun-16 21:06:32

Legally, it's not always permitted for a resident parent to change a child's name- it's a standard part of the residence order we have that says I cannot cause DD to be known by, or use, a different surname to that on the order.

If your husband had PR, then the name couldn't be changed.

Why did you husband care so little for his child that he never bothered to get PR, and contact? Money doesn't mean he fulfilled his role as a father.

Whether adopted or not, he's done a bit of the right thing paying for his own daughter. Surely he can't resent that, even if she has been adopted?

If he cared about the relationship side, I'd suggest he should has pursued that before she was 10 years old.

If he doesn't care about the relationship side, it's still right he should support his daughter.

Your DH should be grateful someone is providing a stable family life for his DD, mopping up tears, dealing with strops etc. £17k is a bargain.

ginasfs Fri 01-Jul-16 21:03:09

Eyelash and *Watch
You have no idea of the situation so you are not entitled to comment on whether my DH cares or not. She was taken away from him, all he can do is provide for her financially whilst the mother prevents any form of contact, but as someone previously said, if that is happening and she has been adopted then money is being illegally obtained and my DH has no idea whether his daughter has been adopted or not.

If you had read my op properly you will see that the mother and child moved across the country - about 400 miles. Fathers who are not married to mothers have absolutely no rights unless they are present when registering the birth so unfortunately he hasn't been given much choice in the situation. The mother has all the power and my DH has none. He's treated as a walking wallet.

What kind of world do we live in that a mother can withhold contact from a father (a very good father and respectable man may I add) but expect and legally (smh) get money from that father. Female entitlement gone mad.

Either you two are not parents or the exact type of parents to use children as weapons or for financial gain.

Kr1stina Sat 02-Jul-16 06:48:10

Gina - your personal attacks on eyelash and watch are inappropriate and wrong .

I assume that your Dh knew the both law and human biology when he decided to have sex with this woman . When a man ejaculates inside a woman , he loses the choice over whether or not he becomes a father.

He then chose to not enforce his wish for contract through the courts - I assume this as you have not mentioned it . And if he did so it woudl be very odd for contact not to have been granted .

Your husband could have moved 400 miles to be with his child and play an active part in her life - again he chose not to .

Or he could have got on a bus and travelled to see her - again he didn't .

So your husband has had plenty choices over the years .

Your comments about a " walking wallet " and the mother having all the power make your sound money grabbing and frankly , clueless about parenting .

This woman has been left with ALL the responsibility for raising his child and he has done nothing except sign a direct debit . You seem to care nothing for your step daughter and everything for the ( very unlikely ) chance to get some money back .

The only reason I am taking the time to reply to you aftre your rudeness to other posters is that I assume you have been deceived by your husband and you desperately want to believe his story . Maybe you are young and gullible or just in love and want to believe his version of events, in which he is the victim and his abandoned child and her mother are they perpetrators.

Please think very carefully befroe having children with this man .

Many of us make foolish decisions when we are young and as adults we regret them . The rather disturbing thing about your husband is that he doesn't seem to regret what he has done and blames others for his poor choice.

Lookatyourwatchnow Sat 02-Jul-16 08:24:55

Gina, you don't appear to have any idea what you are talking about. Do you have children yourself? If your ex partner moved 400 miles away with your child and told you that you couldn't see them, would you allow that to happen? For 10 years?

I assume that you do know that your DH has had 10 years to make an application for a contact order (or more recently, a child arrangements order), and would have been granted court ordered contact. Assuming, of course, that the child's mother has clearly and definitively told him that she would not have allowed him to have contact with his child after he asked. How many times has your DH pursued contact? Has he been in contact with the child's mother for the past 10 years asking for contact? Travelled to her to pursue contact? Written to her to request contact? Been to a solicitor to pursue contact? Been to Court?

Lookatyourwatchnow Sat 02-Jul-16 08:26:05

Oh, and NB. It's parental responsibility. Not 'rights'.

ginasfs Sat 02-Jul-16 09:30:40

My personal attacks are wrong but their personal attacks are right? Wow.

Can I just remind you that I asked whether or not we were able to find out if the child had been adopted, not for opinions on how horrible my husband is (which is quite frankly laughable if you knew the full story)

I could sit here all day and tell you about all the hurdles put up that my DH would have to jump over to see his daughter. I could sit here and tell you all the awful things his ex has said and done but I came to ask a question and it typical MN style the entitled come along bashing. So I'm out.

I hope you all have a wonderful day.

ginasfs Sat 02-Jul-16 09:33:05

Oh and Kristina

Thanks for thinking of me but I can assure you I am not deceived at all. And yes we have children, he's a fantastic father. Out.

MrsDeVere Sat 02-Jul-16 09:34:03

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MrsDeVere Sat 02-Jul-16 09:36:26

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

eyelashsmash Sun 03-Jul-16 20:12:14

Wow. Just wow.

You've posted on a board where most of the posters are well acquainted with family courts, for good or ill.

You've posted on a board where almost all posters would walk through fire for their kids, both adopted and birth, court is nothing.

Has your 'D'H been to court to get PR? It would be highly, highly likely granted.

You are posting somewhere where the other posters desire to be parents, are familiar with the court system, and who are helpful and willing to give you the benefit of their expertise. You clearly think you know better, and that your 'D'H is some sort of victim in this.

You are posting somewhere where many posters believe the only 'victim' in these situations, is the child.

Did your husband pursue contact through the courts? 400 miles is nothing, when it's your child.

Do you have children? Do you know that burning love that you would travel the Earth for a glance of them? We do. It's a mixed blessing, sometimes, knowing that love, as an adopter, because you know (hope) the birth parents have that, too, and know that they cannot stop looking for their child. This leads to many of the security worries adoptive parents have. If anyone took either of my kids away, 400 miles would not stop me. Money would not stop me. I would die penniless before anyone would stop me holding my child again, seeing my child again. That's being a parent.

fluffyjumper123 Sun 03-Jul-16 20:42:54

I was adopted by my step father when I was six years old (now 23) at the time of the adoption, they did search for my biological father to seek permission but as they were unable to find him we had to have additional monitoring in order to determine whether it was in my best interests. As it was they let us go ahead. My biological father was on my original birth certificate but not on my updated one. As this was a long time ago, I can not be sure that this would still happen but thought this may be helpful in asking the question that you initially raised. Good luck op winecake

fluffyjumper123 Sun 03-Jul-16 20:43:53

* answering the question you initially raised

eyelashsmash Sun 03-Jul-16 20:51:27

fluffyjumper, that is unlikely in this case, as the resident mum would have to claim she doesn't know who, or where, or how to trace, OP's DH.

The fact she is receiving maintenance means that either the child is not adopted, or that the resident mum would be in contempt of court. At application to court for adoption, all possible ways to find the birth parents must be made, including via their NI number etc if claiming benefits. The court could certainly get this info from the CSA/CMS if applicable, and wouldn't grant the adoption order until the birth father had chance to object. Unless the OP's DH pays direct into the mum's bank account, and she lied in court, in which case she would be in deep deep shit.

But if OP's DH applied for contact at any time, the courts would know this, and therefore would not grant an adoption order.

Adoption isn't easy, as you know, fluffy, even in step-parent adoptions, which is why sometimes step parents will apply for PR, in their own right. That is different to adoption.

So, actually, OP, it's entirely possible in your case that step dad had PR granted by the court. It's entirely possible that the people with PR (mum and step dad) have changed the child's surname. It's unlikely the child is adopted without your DH knowing.

He can apply for PR himself.

Whatever, he should pay for his child, and I think resenting the money going to pay for his child is bad taste.

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