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Do children get Pupil Premium Plus funding even after the Adoption Order has been granted

(33 Posts)
SirSpamalot Wed 15-Jul-15 10:44:15

i.e. they are no longer legally classed as 'Looked After Children'?

Started to look into this - found this info which is out of my area, but presumably applies to all.

Pupil Premium Plus

Thought it might be useful for some people. Certainly going to use it to kick my DC's school up the preverbial.... But it doesn't answer my above question.

If the answer is 'yes they do', how long do they continue to get it for (currently)?

Thanks- as always.

Threesocksnohairbrush Wed 15-Jul-15 10:49:26

Yes they do - if adopted after I think 2005. For the duration, and in recognition that many adopted kids have significant educational needs which aren't eliminated by the making of an adoption order.

DS has very significant needs and it goes to fund his extra help alongside his statement. DD is doing, at present, very nicely thank you, but the school still claims it for her and I am happy that it goes to support the general group of PP children.

If school aren't claiming on your DCs behalf then a kick up the backside is entirely in order.

SirSpamalot Wed 15-Jul-15 10:53:23

Wonderful, thank you. I thought that was the case, I just wanted to check.

They are claiming it - I just think they're putting it into pot with other kids and they are focusing heavily on academic achievement, not emotional which I think is what is required.

Many thanks.

UnderTheNameOfSanders Wed 15-Jul-15 11:03:30

Yes. (Though not for 6th form colleges).

I think it is mainly there to 'close the gap' in attainment, though a child who is not emotionally in the right place will not be in place to achieve.

ADD2 starting having ELSA sessions in January, and has blossomed both emotionally and academically.

StaceyAndTracey Wed 15-Jul-15 11:53:08

So if there are 6 kids in the school with PPP, can they use their money to eg bring a counsellor in to do group work with them ?

Can they use the money to eg buy a new whiteboard for the classroom and say " well the PPP kids will benefit along with all the others " ?

FurtherSupport Wed 15-Jul-15 12:06:07

No, Stacey but they could arrange group work, say drama to improve confidence, and involve other children because the (ex)LAC couldn't do the activity on their own IYSWIM.

StaceyAndTracey Wed 15-Jul-15 12:11:44

So how do you stop the school just spending it on what they want and saying " well they will benefit along with the rest of the class " ?

Eg they don't have money for a PE teacher so one comes in to work with the whole class

UnderTheNameOfSanders Wed 15-Jul-15 12:12:50

Further do you think so?

I think you could use PPP money to fund a counsellor, and you could bring 'extra' children into that group if needed.

But you couldn't buy a whiteboard!

Our PP(P) money is spent on stuff like
- spelling & maths support
- 'morning club' (provides free breakfasts for specific children to help get them into school on time)
- subsidised extra curricula drama
- subsiding trips for PP kids

Our 2 secondary schools both use some PP money running transition summer school weeks for PP children between y6 and y7, which apparently are very successful.

FurtherSupport Wed 15-Jul-15 12:16:30

OFSTED are very hot on PPP (and PP) and the school needs to show how it has benefited the children it was intended to benefit.

It's not hard to fudge though.

If you have specific things you think your child needs, you need to talk to the school.

SirSpamalot Wed 15-Jul-15 13:38:09

My situation is that the DC are getting extra support - but they would get this anyway, without PPP (it would instead be funded by the school). I think the PPP is being used to fund the support to save the school some ££.

I don't think they're doing this 'maliciously' - I just don't think they're 'hot' on what PPP should and shouldn't be being used for.

SirSpamalot Wed 15-Jul-15 13:46:18

Sorry Further - the 'hot' (in inverted commas) could be taken as a dig at your post and it wasn't meant like that!

FurtherSupport Wed 15-Jul-15 13:52:03

Wasn't taken like that, but I'm glad it's not just me who lives in constant fear of the tone of a post being misinterpreted grin

How or why would your DC be getting extra support from the school budget? IME there isn't any money for individual support unless it's from PP or designated SEN money

You're probably right though, unless they've had a recent Ofsted they may not be fully aufait with what's required of them, in terms or accounting for the way PPP is spent. They will become aufait quickly on the next OFSTED though. We had to produce lots of fudged last minute paperwork last time.

OddBoots Wed 15-Jul-15 13:53:07

One of the problems is that Ofsted use exam results to see if the funding has been used to 'close the gap' so schools are encouraged to use it on academic not social areas.

SirSpamalot Wed 15-Jul-15 14:24:06

Hi Further - really good point, I hadn't thought of it like that.

I guess my thinking comes from the fact that in a newsletter it was stressed that the school was funding it - and there are a number of children that have this support who definitely aren't on PPP. (They may be on PP though)

So - even if the PP element of the payment for my DC was being used on this support, I don't know where the 'top up' (i.e. the PPP bit) is going. Does that make sense?

The schools last Ofsted was late last year, but they wouldn't have looked at the PPP for my DC as they weren't registered on the census until Jan this year (they were placed in May 2014).

FurtherSupport Wed 15-Jul-15 15:25:54

You're probably right, it would be unusual to find every last penny accounted for and going directly to the child it's intended for, but one would hope that you wouldn't necessarily know if the other children receiving the support are LAC, PP and/or SEN and receiving legitimate help that way.

The school will see the PP & PPP money as "theirs" so the fact that they say they're funding it doesn't necessarily mean they are funding it from the main budget.

Also, it may well be that some of the children are getting the support through PPP or whatever, but that there are others who need the help but don't get extra funding. The school can still choose to spend it's "own" money supporting them, even if PPP is playing to support other children in the same way.

FWIW, getting the right support for all children, does ultimately benefit all the children in the school.

OddBoots Wed 15-Jul-15 15:50:36

As far as I know it is compulsory (or at least good practice) to publish on the school website a statement listing what the PP has funded and an evaluation of the impact it has had on the targeted child. I don't know if PPP is done exactly the same as I think it is paid through a virtual school so there is oversight of its use by specialists in LAC.

Is there anything on the school website about it?

FurtherSupport Wed 15-Jul-15 15:52:41

Schools do need to publish details of how they spend PP, but it's fairly general. e'g "employment of x no. LSAs" Obviously, they can't publish details of exactly how each child's money has been spent.

JaneDonne Wed 15-Jul-15 19:57:24

The distinction between academic and emotional/social support is a bit redundant really. You can't learn anything if you're constantly in a state of emotional upheaval.

Schools know that. Teacher trainers can't wait for an opportunity to pop maslow's hierarchy of needs on a ppt ime smile

SirSpamalot Wed 15-Jul-15 20:02:30

Really appreciate everyone's advice on this and further the penny has dropped when you say the school will see the PP/PPP money as theirs Of course this is what they meant in their newsletter. Silly me.

This thread has stopped me wading into the school with a snot o' gram email...

Thanks all

P.S.... Jane... Finally you've given me a quick win on how to get buy in from teachers around the need for emotional support. I know about Maslow, never thought of explaining attachment difficulties in this way though. Thank you.

tethersend Wed 15-Jul-15 21:44:51

Just a couple of points-

The Pupil Premium (confusingly no longer called the Pupil Premium Plus) is paid to LAC and former LAC if they left care due to adoption, SGO or child arrangement order (formerly a residence order). The date limitation has been removed, so all children adopted from care are entitled to £1,900 a year.

The LAC PP is managed by Virtual Heads; the former LAC PP is not. Instead it is paid directly to the school. Parents must make it known to the school that their child is adopted, and the school records this on the school census in January.

The legislation on the PP is misleading, IMO. Whilst it is not ringfenced, schools are accountable to OFSTED and parents, and must show how the money has been used to raise that particular child's academic attainment.

For LAC, many Virtual heads are withholding it until agreement has been reached as to how it will be spent via the PEP.

Far too many schools are absorbing it into their budget, or into their generic PP spend which they receive for children who are on free school meals (FSM) or have been in the last six years. How schools spend the generic PP is the information which must be published on their website.

The basic rule of thumb is that it should be used for things which are not part of the school's universal offer- additional support, tuition, laptops, extra curricular trips etc. if support can be accessed by other children who are not in receipt of the LAC or former LAC PP, then it is not a good use of the money. Having said that, it can be useful to pool LAC/Former LAC PP to provide targeted interventions which develop social skills as long as the primary target is the children who attract the money. Some schools use funds or part of the funds to train staff in attachment issues or trauma experienced children.

As vulnerable children, LAC and former LAC should also benefit from the generic PP funding- breakfast clubs, booster groups etc. Their PP should not be used for these things.

Ask to see a copy of the school's provision map, and identify extra, targeted support which is relevant to the child and is not part of the universal offer. The school should establish baseline data before the intervention, in order to properly evaluate its impact.

The Sutton Trust/EEF Toolkit is a useful springboard for discussion with the school about the efficacy of any planned interventions.

tethersend Wed 15-Jul-15 21:45:15

Sorry, that was more than a couple of points grin

JamHoneyMarmite Wed 15-Jul-15 22:00:06

Brilliant Tethers - really useful summary, thank you!

Also, re hierarchies of need, Kim Golding's is even more useful than Maslow's when it comes to explaining adopted children's emotional needs, so far for us smile

SirSpamalot Thu 16-Jul-15 08:17:36

Tethers thank you.

So, should my (former) LAC have a PEP? Should I have input into it?

tethersend Thu 16-Jul-15 09:19:52

No, PEPs are only statutory for LAC. To my knowledge, only one authority (Windsor and Maidenhead) are completing PEPs for adopted children.

There is certainly an issue with this- if a school refuses to spend the PP appropriately, there is nobody (apart from parents) to pull them up on it until Ofsted visit. I think the rules will probably change again shortly, with Virtual heads expanding their remit to cover adopted children.

Alljamissweet Thu 16-Jul-15 14:16:39

#loves tethersend
Thank you

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