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A teensy gleam of light for waiting children and parents

(19 Posts)
MoJangled Fri 05-Jun-15 23:12:13

Prospective adopters sharing the matching shelf with me might like to know that apparently, today a case was heard in the family court, that has massive implications for unclogging (or not) the future for children in care. I don't know details, but it concerns the unofficial presumption in favour of birth family in placement considerations, which will either be upheld or overturned.

Dr Google suggests it might be the final hearing in this case, but that's pure supposition on my part (and it sounds like a truly awful situation for that child and her family and carers).

Anyway, thought I'd let you know. I've been very low and feeling that adoption will never happen for us, and clarification around this point might allow adopters and children stuck in the system, so maybe others will benefit from a glimmer of light.

That said, I don't know what the verdict was! Might be a short-lived glimmer...

ALovelyTrain Fri 05-Jun-15 23:25:11

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MoJangled Fri 05-Jun-15 23:38:25

No idea about that - and obv very important for the people involved in this case.

But selfishly I'm all about me me me and my future child/ren; and so much more interested in the potential of this case to clarify that the presumption should be in favour of the child's welfare, rather than in favour of care by a member of the birth family, when the two don't always coincide. Could be the - or at least a - key to ungumming the whole system. Or not.

ALovelyTrain Fri 05-Jun-15 23:58:53

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MoJangled Sat 06-Jun-15 00:27:29

Thank you. It's quite shit grin. I hadn't thought about the legal representation point, actually...

Velvet1973 Sat 06-Jun-15 06:53:54

I don't understand that one at all. From reading at the beginning it talks of the 2 children being subject to "placement orders" then says the subject of them shouldn't have been brought up at the same hearing as the adoption order. So I think the 3rd child had an adoption order hearing but bf challenged the placement orders for the other two at that hearing and that appeal was granted? Very confusing.
I'm pretty certain once an adoption order has been granted then that is it, obviously birth family can request appeal at adoption order hearing and that nay it may not be granted but then once so is issued I was under the impression that all legal challenges etc finished there.

iwishkidslikedtomatoes Sat 06-Jun-15 07:14:15

You can appeal adoption order once granted. Currently happening to us. BP given so many weeks to do it though, so I'm presuming from what I've been told previously, that after that time, you can't get appeals years down the line.

Velvet1973 Sat 06-Jun-15 13:20:33

Iwishkidslikedtomatoes I'm astounded by this I have to say and sorry you're in this situation. We're just coming up to the hearing for our ao and we've been advised bp's can request leave to appeal at the first hearing and then there would be a 2nd hearing a few weeks later whether or not the request to appeal was granted or refused. We were assured that once the adoption order is granted that is it, I've been frantically googling to try and find out about this as it is concerning me but can't find anything. Do you know how long it is that they have to lodge the appeal?

iwishkidslikedtomatoes Sat 06-Jun-15 13:23:40

So, I've done a bit of reading since my last post. Our case definitely has had the adoption order granted, apparently judge made a point of clarifying that and we are waiting to find out if BF has appealed in the time frame given by the judge before a celebration hearing can happen. However, after my bit of reading I'm wandering if in fact he can't appeal the actual adoption order, but he can appeal the decision made by the judge to not allow him to contest? If indeed permission was granted for the right to a full appeal/contest of AO and the BF succeeded in showing significant changes then that would surely reverse the adoption order?? Reason being, I can't find anything on web about opposing a granted AO. I think after reading I'm actually less sure, im goinv round in circles, the law is so bloody confusing! But I do know one thing, you can have a judge grant an AO and have a BP apply to appeal something!! confused Stressful times for all the adults concerned but children remain blissfully unaware, so that's ok. I don't really mind in that I want every avenue explored, to know we are absolutely the only option but I have to say it is rather stressful, especially the idea of now......nope, I'm not going to think about that.

Anyway, that's side tracking the original which I refer back to my 'the law is so bloody confusing' comment, sorry, I'm of no help. I hope your wait is not too much longer OP. Fingers crossed for you.

iwishkidslikedtomatoes Sat 06-Jun-15 13:24:29

Sorry, posting at same time. It's 3 weeks to appeal.

Desmoulinsonatable Sat 06-Jun-15 14:48:24

Iwish there maybe something useful here

It seems comprehensive

Desmoulinsonatable Sat 06-Jun-15 14:49:02

Sorry, no idea how to make it clickable

iwishkidslikedtomatoes Sat 06-Jun-15 15:32:12

Thank you smile Still seems to be about contesting/opposing one in the first place though, nothing about appealing a granted one. I'm wandering whether there is a difference between a hearing where AO is granted and the celebration hearing e.g. Once you've had the celebration hearing it's completely final but the usual month between those two allows for appealing of anything. hmmmmm....nothing worth doing is ever easy now is it! smile

Desmoulinsonatable Sat 06-Jun-15 17:32:08

I don't think who has got anywhere in this process can think any other way or we'd all be batty! grin Good luck with the search for clarity!

Velvet1973 Sat 06-Jun-15 17:54:11

Iwish, now you've said that I vaguely recall hearing or seeing something like that a bp can appeal the judges decision to not let them appeal so I wonder if that is it. Whatever it is it's ridiculous, it just prolongs the agony for everyone involved be it bp, adopter or child.

floatyjosmum Sun 07-Jun-15 10:29:37

Before the ao I'd granted they can apply for leave to contest the granting of the ao.

If they go down this route and are told no the ao is granted 28 days later as they have to allow a 28 day appeal period to being told no.

Once the ao is granted there is a 28 day appeal period.

iwishkidslikedtomatoes Sun 07-Jun-15 13:11:15

Hence why most wait a month between AO hearing and celebration hearing then, makes sense, unless there was no contest and they have a date free in some cases. I'm presuming in our case BP has been given 3 weeks to get it in to leave a week for judge to consider.

Thank you floaty for clearing up what Google didn't!

We shall continue to wait.... Good luck too velvet, I have fingers crossed for a smooth final part of the process for you smile We all accept so much uncertainty as part of adoption but it does really feel that with everything that gets us, the children and birth parents to this point, this part should be quite straightforward but like I said before, I'd rather every avenue be considered (even with this being done many times over) so we all move forward knowing this was the best and only option, it's just sooooooo hard isn't it...

Velvet1973 Sun 07-Jun-15 20:06:06

Ah you see that still doesn't make sense as we've been told celebration hearing is sometime within 2-3 weeks of hearing regardless of it being contested. God it's so flipping complicated, there has to be a better way! I truly believe parental rights should be terminated at placement order and therefore any appeals etc are done then. I think the adoption order should purely be about the suitability and success of the match.
Good luck Iwish, I hope it's sorted quickly for you.

iwishkidslikedtomatoes Sun 07-Jun-15 20:55:22

That's a really good idea! Although if child didn't find adoptive parents or it took years and birth parents situation changed....

You know what, they need, and I can't believe I would suggest this, another court order! An interim placement order could say they can look for an adoptive family, then the actual placement order could be ordered once matched, with no challenges after that's gone through, then by the time we meet our children there is no reversal unless the adoption order is not granted because it is not a good match. Better for us, better for children and same number of challenges allowed by birth families without them having to consider, if despite changes they've made, they're now uprooting their children from a settled adoptive placement. Oh we can but dream of tweaking the system for everyone's benefit....

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