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15,000 Kids and Counting - Episode 2

(275 Posts)
Lilka Thu 10-Apr-14 14:14:59

Tonight at 9.00 on Channel 4

The Search
This episode follows the search for adoptive parents for a two-year-old boy and a three and seven-year-old brother and sister

With the added challenges of having slightly older children, siblings and a child with possible health issues to place, the task for social workers Annette and Jackie is a massive one

With the future of these children in their hands and recently set government targets to meet, they struggle not to become emotionally involved as they strive to find adopters before time runs out

Billiejo90 Wed 26-Jul-17 13:12:22

Kacie Jasmin.m4a

Billiejo90 Wed 26-Jul-17 13:09:21

That was my mum with 4 boys And 1 girl she died not long after and that program ans social worker are to blaim this is wot was wrong with the dessions ..."the process by which led to the removal of josh Jayden kayden Kieren and ocean I believe that this pertinent because it demonstrates a concerning process which may lead to families being separated inappropriately.
The process shown on the documentary demonstrates the assumption that no significant change in behaviour is possible without undertaking a specific psychotherapy over a specific time frame. This assumption was shared by the clinical psychologist who was asked to provide an update for a case. There is no psychological evidence base that would support that change is not possible without specific psychotherapy, and furthermore the argument that change is impossible without psychotherapy is fallacious.
Therefore, as demonstrated in the documentary, this assumption that was key to the decision not to reassess xxx had no safe basis. Therefore the removal of xxx and xxx was made without sufficient evidence."

Billiejo90 Wed 26-Jul-17 12:58:45

My mum was on that 15000 kids and counting my 4 brothers and sister my mum sadly died not long after this program and the program was a sham it won't even done properly iv got a reporter from. A sycoligst stating how wrong there dessions was the 7 year old came to live with us add to go to is mums funeral and I watched him claps at my mums coffin and the social workers are abliviase to this cos there not I treated once they remove the children I hate the syteam and it's unfair

Italiangreyhound Sun 20-Apr-14 20:24:52

Tommy2013 every time I hear the phrase 'It's the two mummies' I will think of you!

I said up thread that I didn’t like the foster dad saying these children are resilient! I think he said it because he wanted to show that despite the kids going through a lot they can weather those storms, as in they can still be very much able to be adopted and adapt. So I think I was a bit unfair on him!

I think these programs are aimed at getting people interested in adoption! Which is great. So sorry to the foster dad if I jumped the gun and was mean!

Aww, thanks for coming on the thread Tommy2013 smile
Best of luck to you all thanks

fromparistoberlin73 Fri 18-Apr-14 22:22:17

aww the 2 mummies are here, bless you and bless Tommy> wishing you all the very best

fasparent Wed 16-Apr-14 11:15:43

Also believe www.NOFAS.UK do a free FASD basic Training module but have too pay for your own accreditation points on completion.

fasparent Wed 16-Apr-14 10:47:06

Sorry would have too enquire via site, Raw deal really as the actual initiation of instrumentation was as a result of Adoptive parents Conferencing for Professional's, and inviting them, presenting them too the educational situation of FAS/D Children , rest is history. do HE level 3 Accredited FAS/D Training not sure of the cost, know some professionals take these course's. is out sourced
too E Learning Gov. Approved training provider's.

adoptmama Wed 16-Apr-14 05:53:26

Fasparent - thanks for the link. Can you tell me if the modules on the complexneeds sites are free or if you need to pay to complete? Thanks

fasparent Wed 16-Apr-14 00:14:47

Glad your pleased, their are many Adoptive Parent working hard too obtain support and understanding for all our Tommy's , have done for years, lots of support groups too join too share knowledge and experience. all linked national so any big project's all can join in, and take part in training, even training teachers, or start your own support group if none in your area.

Devora Tue 15-Apr-14 14:38:57

Wow, what a lot of helpful information in those posts, fasparent. Thanks so much.

fasparent Mon 14-Apr-14 23:50:25

Do apologise FAS/D Teacher training Special Schools Academy Trust
Department of Education FAS/D Training
hope these are of use also have other syndromes and needs. We used too refer schools and professional's too appropriate tool's.

fasparent Mon 14-Apr-14 23:25:44

Devora agree FAS FASD is a problem we had too fight every inch of the way for our DD and DS, Things are changing be it slow thanks mainly too Adoptive parents and their FAS FASD Support groups, Teachers are now being trained, as are health professional's, Many parents and their children's schools took part in a recent FASD Teaching research project with The Department of Education and Professor Barry Carpenter SSAT is now being taught too teachers available too all schools (children were mostly adoptee's). see also the pupil premium of £1900 pa will also help buy in services for adopted children who may need extra special support in school and early years education.
There is a lot going on around FAS and FASD at the moment Midwifery funded £4m 4year FAS/D Training for example.
Agree still not good enough and will take time for training too take effect . see list of all UK FAS/D Support groups at
Strength in numbers

Devora Mon 14-Apr-14 20:16:49

NN, I suspect they flag up FAS if there is any chance of it, to prevent them from being criticised later for not disclosing. My understanding of FAS is that its affects vary hugely depending on at what point in pregnancy the damage was done - so if the heavy drinking occurs at one stage of the pregnancy, rather than throughout, you might well have an affected child who doesn't have FAS facial characteristics.

My dd came to us as ?FAS and has no distinctive facial characteristics, but I still believe she was probably affected - though we may never know for sure. (What's the drink, what's the drugs, what's the in utero experiences, what's the early life experiences, what's the adoption?)

fasparent, I'm really glad your dd is doing so well, but I think I'm right in saying there's a whole continuum of experience, and some children really suffer greatly.

sensitiveinfo, my sympathies on your nephew. Sadly I don't think things are necessarily much better now. I had FAS flagged up four years ago, but we were given no information on it, and when I asked questions at our appointment with the medical advisor she got very cross and told the social worker she thought we were after a 'perfect blonde baby' and probably not suitable to adopt. I felt very, very punished for daring to even ask questions - and as this was the week before matching panel I felt I couldn't rock the boat further by pushing for more. Since then: nothing, no support whatsoever.

sensitiveinfo Mon 14-Apr-14 17:47:14

I've namechanged to protect my relative's identity.

I found it hard to watch Tommy, because he was about the same age as my nephew would have been when he was adopted. He has FAS and is twelve now. I find it hard to watch his parents - they knew about his FAS when they adopted him but they don't seem to have been given much training on it and although they love him and are trying their best, they just don't seem to have a lot of support with it. He's really struggling to settle into secondary school and they are struggling with him becoming a teenager in general. I just think it's sad and wish they'd had more support earlier on. They adopted their children 10-20 years ago and things sound very different now.

NanaNina Mon 14-Apr-14 15:41:07

To be honest I couldn't really understand why they were flagging up FAS. He doesn't appear to have any of the facial characteristics associated with FAS but then not all children do. They tend to be "small for dates" obviously with a BM who abused alcohol, and like any other syndrome you can be anywhere between completely normal and have severe behavioural and emotional issues. I think one of the problems is that it tends to go undiagnosed and because FAS children don't have learning difficulties as such, they are often blamed for bad behaviour.

FAS parent may be along soon, and she is very optimistic about her FAS children who have done very well through all the ages and stages. However I have seen FAS children who have turned out to exhibit quite bizarre behaviour (in one case) and a couple of others where there have been emotional and behavioural problems. However you don't need to dwell on this and I'm sure the two of you will be very well equipped to cope with whatever comes along.

You are so right that he has had the best start in life with foster carers who loved him right from the beginning of his life really and this together with the love and care he will receive with you will be a protective factor for him in terms of secure attachments throughout his life span.

fasparent Mon 14-Apr-14 15:40:23

Nice too here from you and how Tommy is doing. Do not worry too much
regards too development of FAS. Our Adopted DD has FULL FAS is now 24 lead's a normal life, just bought a car and is enjoying life. Sure with your love and understanding, life for Tommy will be as good as our daughter's has been .

Tommy2013 Mon 14-Apr-14 15:26:36

Thank you Devora, I know some people are biased about same sex couples adopting and to me it's only the same situation whether your a single mum or single dad on the role model situation. That's where family and friends play a vital workers are very thorough in their job of matching children...and like many people we hadn't seen a photo of our son, but the minute we read his profile there was an instant attachment. It didn't matter about the uncertainty of FAS developing. He has had the best start in life through nurture. He is very intelligent, beautiful and were absolutely in love with him like the rest of our family and friends are.

Devora Mon 14-Apr-14 14:54:14

Hiya Tommy2013! Another lesbian adopter here - thought you came across really well and Tommy is lovely.

We were very dutiful with setting up godfathers etc to be male role models then found that the role models just kind of emerged. dd2 rarely sees her godparents , but she is very close to dd1's dad, and her best friend is a boy, and she spent most of yesterday with our neighbour, who is teaching her how to ride her bike.

Itsfab Mon 14-Apr-14 13:38:07

I also want to echo the importance of foster carers. A few years ago I found my foster mum and then soon after a lady who I used to spend time with who wanted to foster me as well and I am so grateful they want to bother with me and hadn't forgotten me. I have no family of my own so without these two ladies I would feel even more alone.

Lilka Mon 14-Apr-14 13:02:17

That's lovely to hear Tommy2013 smile thanks I hope you all continue to have a wonderful life together

NanaNina Mon 14-Apr-14 12:44:16

Oh wow - didn't know you two were on MN!! Lovely to hear Tommy is thriving, but I think it was obvious from the beginning that the match was a good one. Loved the book you did and the way you have prepared his bedroom with all age appropriate toys etc. I smiled a bit when Tommy almost waved the FCs away when he saw his bedroom! Glad you are keeping in contact with the FCs as they had cared for him since a tiny baby and so the move to adopters is always going to be a wrench for FCs in this position. I have always thought we ask so much of foster carers "love and care for them, nurture them but give them up when the times is right....."

I just loved it when Tommy's sw opened the book you had prepared and asked him "whose that" and he said "2 mummies......." priceless!

Very best wishes to you 2 special mummies and so glad Tommy will get the unconditional love, permanence and stability that all children need to grown into well adjusted adults.

I'm hoping theses programmes will start people thinking about adoption. We found that sometimes people came along months after seeing this sort of programme, and had been thinking about adoption "on and off" ever since, and "took the plunge" when they felt ready.

MerryInthechelseahotel Mon 14-Apr-14 11:03:21

Aww that is lovely to hear tommy2013 wishing you happy lives together thanks

Tommy2013 Mon 14-Apr-14 00:21:09

Thank you nananina for your lovely comment about having a good feeling over Tommy's new mummies. Tommy is a beautiful boy we love him dearly and he's thriving very well. In answer to one comment on here about male role models in Tommy's life I assure he has got plenty of male support. We are also in close contact with Tommy's FC and hope they will always be a part of their life when the time is right.

shoebedo434 Sun 13-Apr-14 23:35:07

could really relate to this as got our son in November and go to court next month. the foster dad of tommy was giving off vibes he wasn't happy with the placement with same sex couple. we had a few problems with the foster father too but it is not down to them if you are the right people for the child, it is down to the social workers. they just need to make the transition easy for everyone involved. looking forward to next weeks episode

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