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Quick! Calm me down!

(49 Posts)
Devora Tue 04-Mar-14 19:28:30

OK, I know we're not supposed to start a thread about a thread, and I'm not going to link to it, but I'm feeling so hurt and angry about something going on in another corner of MN that I have lost my legendary tact and charm hmm and become lairy.

I need calming down. I need soothing. I need someone who Gets It.

Anyone in tonight?

JenJoWilson Tue 04-Mar-14 19:33:22

I'm fairly new and am pretty sure would not be involved in what's happening in the "dark corner" shall we say?! How are you?

LastingLight Tue 04-Mar-14 19:49:34

Have some wine. Take a deep breath. Step away from the keyboard...

Or link to the thread so that we can tell you if you are overreacting or not.

Italiangreyhound Tue 04-Mar-14 19:54:13

Do not allow the gibberings on MN to destroy your calm.

redfishbluefish Tue 04-Mar-14 19:54:26

wine / brew

MyFeetAreCold Tue 04-Mar-14 19:55:51

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Kewcumber Tue 04-Mar-14 19:55:55

What corner are the dark lurkings?

I thought you were trainee zen master?

Devora Tue 04-Mar-14 20:15:53

Ah, thanks all for being there. I feel better already and no, I won't go back to that thread. I've already told someone not to be so fucking patronising and that is a first for me in ten years on Mumsnet.

OK, it was a thread about criminalising women whose children are born with FASD. And all the predictable things got said: about how this would be an unacceptable assault on women's reproductive rights etc. And also all these women trilling about how they had a couple of glasses too many before they realised they were pregnant and should they be slung behind bars for that?

And it just sparked a deep well of irritation in me. It's like all those threads about child protection where posters pick up on single issues and start frothing about, well I don't always have a full cupboard, and my kids sleep on a mattress, should I expect social services knocking at the door? Women who have never ever been poverty-stricken or deeply damaged or at any kind of risk of losing their children.

And, to be extra fair, I've had a really rough week with ill children and an ill partner and enormous pressures at work and an encounter with my dd's speech therapist that left me feeling furious that the NHS has not taken better fucking care of my daughter. So I'm in a really ratty mood - a foul mood.

But anyway, I had said throughout this thread that I completely agreed that reproductive freedom is absolutely central to women's liberation and that criminalisation of behaviour during pregnancy must be resisted. I have been a pro-choice activists for 30 years; I've worked in abortion clinics, FFS. But I also said that these threads bothered me because the children are always invisible in them - seems that people are far more bothered about asserting their right to party than discussing the more complex issues involved. I particularly took issue with posters who suggested that 'these women' shoudl be offered support rather than condemned (good idea! It's that easy!) and I pointed out that children like mine, who had been exposed to drugs and alcohol in utero, are almost invisible on these threads. I also pointed out that in effect we do 'punish' women by taking their children off them, if not by criminalising, and that we have few effective responses to the women who give birth to many, many damaged children who are all instantly taken into care.

So of course I get the inevitable poster telling me I'M trivialising the issues, that I have to choose which side I'm on, and that that means the interest of the 'subordinate' group shouldn't even get lip service. Oh, and that I have her sympathies.

Why am I so upset by that? Well, I don't care about winning that argument - she didn't get what I was saying, maybe I expressed it badly, she's not about to affect my life or my daughter's. I suppose it just comes at a point when I'm feeling quite isolated with how I'm managing issues with my daughter (apart from on here - bless you all); where I'm feeling constantly criticised for being 'soft' with her and I suppose just getting a glimpse of the road ahead, which some of you are a lot further down. And if I'm honest, because I'm feeling down and a bit vulnerable, I felt hurt that no-one said, "How sad for your daughter, Devora, tell us a bit about what life's like for children who were exposed to alcohol in utero".

I've really used this for a spot of cheap therapy, haven't I? I'm very impressed if any of you have made it to the end grin. Just say 'there there' and I'll feel much better.

Devora Tue 04-Mar-14 20:17:37

Kew, I have been unbelievably zen at home, despite all manner of provocations (puking children! Yuck, I hate looking after ill people). I'm really quite proud of the new zen me. But clearly it's taking a great deal of energy because I'm knackered grin

Anyway, hold me back ladies, she ain't wurf it.

Hels20 Tue 04-Mar-14 20:26:45

Where is the thread? Totally lost here!

Hels20 Tue 04-Mar-14 20:26:57

Where is the thread? Totally lost here!

redfishbluefish Tue 04-Mar-14 20:29:15

Aw Devora-there there! Don't let the harpies get to you! I have been a lurker until recently and have always appreciated your comments and insights. Sounds like th

MyFeetAreCold Tue 04-Mar-14 20:29:28

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

redfishbluefish Tue 04-Mar-14 20:31:47

Like things are very tough for you now and I hope things improve soon.

So now that I have once again somehow posted too soon, I will move aside for those who are far more adept than me!!

MrsBW Tue 04-Mar-14 20:35:19

I have made it to the end.

There there.

No one likes to have their point of view/fears/concerns/experiences minimised. We're told repeatedly not to do it with our children. It's not surprising when it really pisses us off. We especially don't like to hear bullshit from others who, frankly, don't have a clue when - let's face it - some of the people on here (and other 'specialist' areas of Mumsnet) are the 'Subject Matter Experts' on dealing day after day with some of the issues.

I'm not an adopter yet.

But I just wanted to say - 'I get why you're pissed off. You've got a right to be pissed off and I'm not surprised you're pissed off'.

Personally, I think you're a saint to have made 10 years to have told someone to 'not be so fucking patronising' I made worse comments in the first 10 days of being on here


Devora Tue 04-Mar-14 20:35:44

Well, apparently what I said was disgusting grin. Not often I get accused of that - normally I'm on the po-faced side of truth and justice grin.

Devora Tue 04-Mar-14 20:38:32

Thank you all. I think I must be getting ill. Because now I'm having a good cry and this is very not like me. If I could explain to you what my day job is you'd realise that I have skin as thick as a rhino. Not like me to be the sensitive type.

I get what you mean, and it is a good point.

So, how IS your daughter? But also, how are you?

Maybe use the "hide poster" button for those who are blatantly oblivious to the finer nuances of complex and emotional issues?

Oh, and it is always the strong people who push themselves harder.

Look after yourself.

MyFeetAreCold Tue 04-Mar-14 20:44:07

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ghostinthecanvas Tue 04-Mar-14 20:45:01


I am not going to read the thread. Sounds like you have said all that needs to be said.

Devora Tue 04-Mar-14 20:57:43

dd is ill tonight, Fiscal, but generally good. We started her at a new club this week and for the first time ever, she climbed off my lap and joined in. I felt very proud smile

She also is starting speech therapy. She has a very obvious tongue tie, bizarrely overlooked during her long weeks in special care, noticed by me immediately she came to us. NHS then refused to do anything about it because, "It's a bigger deal at 12 months than at 12 days, and we'd rather wait to see if it causes problems". Now of course it is causing problems - not least interfering with her ability to learn phonics at school because she literally cannot make the letter sounds - and we have finally had a speech therapy assessment. The assessment discovered, astonishingly, that her tongue tie means she can't make her letter sounds. But they're still not going to snip her tongue. Instead, she has to wait till after Easter when she will start a programme of speech therapy to see if the tongue tie will still allow her to make the sounds (even though the therapist said she wont' be able to, and her tongue literally cannot reach the roof of her mouth, but it's 'protocol'). Then she has to have another assessment. Then she will go on the waiting list for surgery. Then she will have another course of speech therapy because, of course, she has now learned to speak incorrectly and needs to relearn. All meaning time off school for her and time off work for me. And, of course, extra costs for the NHS. It HAS to have been better to have snipped her tongue before she learned to talk, surely?

Anyway, we're not in Sudan. Or the Ukraine. What a luxury to be able to stress about speech therapy and spats on Mumsnet.

CheeryGiraffe Tue 04-Mar-14 21:06:01

Devora I have just read the thread - I thought you handled it excellently. There seems to be an inability to see beyond the end of their own lives from a lot of people, and that thread was a prime example. angry Unfortunately they're also incapable of seeing the impact of what they say on people who have far more understanding and knowledge of the topic at hand. They're nothing more than a load of armchair commentators.

Good luck for your DD at speech therapy, and well done for joining in at her club! smile

Devora Tue 04-Mar-14 21:20:52

Thanks CG. Now, if you see me heading back to that thread, stick your foot out and stop me!

OneOfOurLilkasIsMissing Tue 04-Mar-14 21:22:38

Devora I'm sorry, I also have experience of these threads! it sounds tame compared to the one on women's rights a few months ago, on which the OP (mum of girl with FASD) was told she didn't deserve to be a mum and the adoption process should weed out people like her, and I got a few lovely insults as well for my trouble.

One of them who has NO experience of adoption, told me (because I said my DD2 is affected by alcohol exposure and that of course I can get angry, and wouldn't anyone be angry if someone harmed their child, and imagine if a stranger hurt your child and how you would feel) - that it's totally different if your child is harmed by their birth mum, and that everyone would be way less angry if it as their childs birth mum than a randon stranger and would have loads of sympathy etc

Sitting there knowing that my children have been abused by both random strangers and birth parents, I was really bemused by the stupidity. No, it's not less angering, at all. I didn't say anything though, there's no point arguing with someone who has decided how all adoptive parents should think

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