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Not good

(25 Posts)
Lilka Thu 18-Apr-13 16:43:47

Fair warning in the title. I'm in a bloody bad mood right now

DD2 and her wonderful-lovely-clearly-better-than-me mummy have been continuing their lovey-dovey reunion. Which is so clearly to me chaotic. Their 'decisions' are all all ill thought out, spur of the moment. They have been doing more and more together - movies, shopping, eating out, going to the park. Don't know where mum gets the money from. DD has some nice new toys, dvd's, cd's etc from mum

Who is completely as self centred as DD. She is unable to consider her actions or their consequences. She is unable to grasp what DD's needs are and unable to give her boundaries. For instance she buys DD whatever she wants as long as she has the money with her. DD has the new Barbie doll and Bratz doll she liked the look of. But mum, unable to grasp the implications of her wanting this kind of thing aged 17, loans her a film she liked herself - an 18 rated gory horror movie angry

Likewise DD is unable to grasp that her mother actually has her own wants, needs and expectations. She thinks in terms of getting what she wants only

Neither of them can consider or realise the fact that reunion is a two way street requiring giving and understanding on the parts of both sides..let alone actually understand or give to each other.

Of course I know this can't end well in the long term. This isn't how a relationship works, not any relationship of any kind works out on this basis. Indeed even now DD sometimes will express mild annoyance over things her mother did or said because it wasn't exactly what DD wanted her to say or do. Annoyance that her mother's every word and actions do not entirely correspond with what she would like.

I don't want to sit here and wait for DD to get hurt, for them to have a massive falling out which seems inevitable. But i don't really have any other options

If you're wondering where SS are, wonder no longer. I would like them to be at the seaside, taking a long walk off a short pier. But SS don't do what you want. In reality they're at the public baths, having a deep cleansing ritual to fully wash their hands and minds of the responsibility of helping my family. Only PASW was on my side. But crucially, not her manager. At least PASW really tried to help. We are still in a little contact, fat lot of good it is though.

Oh and the bastard letterbox coordinator just sent a reminder to me to send in my letterbox letter about DS. I'M NOT BLOODY DOING ONE. He doesn't want me to. He wants nothing to do with her. I told coordinator this. Doesn't bloody listen.

DS is miserable and angry about this by the way. I'm so angry at DD and her mother for doing this to him. Poor little boy i want to wrap him in cotton wool and shield him from this. I even feel guilty about my decision to adopt him. I pushed for it. But he's suffering because of DD2 and her problems sad

Italiangreyhound Thu 18-Apr-13 19:25:40

Lilka hi, I am so sorry this has gotten to this stage. Is there anyone who can help you, a charity or another other organisation that can give you the support you need, the help with making things happen etc? I don't know enough about DD to know what kind of charity or organisation might help.

Please do not feel bad about DS, I know it is very tough but he loves you and I am sure he will be able to get through this with your help, which is why you need all the support you can get.

I know you will be as supportive as you can of him but please do not beat yourself up about the fact you adopted him!

As DD is still only 17 is there any part of the health service or social services who might be able to assist?

Thinking of you.

Moomoomie Thu 18-Apr-13 19:40:35

So sorry this is continuing Lilka. I really do not know what to say. Have you had any dealings with your local CAHMS? Can Adoption UK help?

This is where things need to change, adoption process does not need to be sped up but support should be in place for every child that has been adopted at any age.

Don't feel guilty about ds you are doing the best for all of your children, you are the best mother for them.
I know how you feel though, I often wonder if we did the right thing by bringing dd3 into our family, but I know deep down we did, we are a family.

KristinaM Thu 18-Apr-13 19:51:38

So sorry to read this. And to admit that I have nothing helpful to say

< passes box of hankies and glass of wine>

It's like some stupid teenage romance , except one of them is supposedly an adult . You are right, you have no choice but to wait until it implodes and pick up the pieces.

Don't waste your energy trying to get SS to intervene.they will do nothing

I know a case where they actually facilitated contact between the birth mum and the 15 yo adoptee, and arranged a meeting for the young persons 16th birthday. All without the consent of the a parents . Child was removed from the birth mother after years of neglect

Soupa Thu 18-Apr-13 23:39:35

I really feel for you, nothing helpful just wanted to share. I am not a mother to an adopted child but I have a long term 'parental role' to a not so young adult. I have been her 'person' for over fifteen years. We have negotiated much that is familiar to many here, abuse, neglect, care homes, failed placements, grooming, great social worker replaced with shit ones, endless review meetings, abortions, no education, housing issues, early parenthood...

Throughout all of this she has had different forms of contact with her birth mother, a woman who facilitated her abuse and neglected all of her children, several of whom died as babies.

They get together sometimes, get closer, get angry, fall out then do it again. Progress has been slow but now they are probably separated emotionally and practically. She had to work through it and didn't have the tools to do it quickly or analytically.

I am sorry that you are going through this and that you know how it will play out but how incredible that she has you because she needs a real parent now more than ever. My girl/woman appreciates my input so much now...

Your son suffers, yes but siblings are all give and take. Actually he sees you parent under the toughest of emotional pressures and learns much about love and safety.

It will go tits up, your family will endure, your anger and upset is entirely appropriate and I hope you have good support. Take care

Lilka Fri 19-Apr-13 16:36:35

Thanks for the support smile

There isn't any organisation who could help - the practical help I get is the time out and listening ears from my mother, best friend and my DD1. Which is an enormous help to me, it just can't do anything for DD2.

It's also good to have support here as well. I spend my time offloading on everyone, I should say thank you as well. The people on this forum are for the most part so kind and supportive. I'm glad to be on here smile

Italiangreyhound Fri 19-Apr-13 18:52:18

Thanks Lilka good to hear we have our uses. smile.

Thinking of you and your lovely and sometimes troubled family. It will get better. I love the saying it will all work out in the end, if it has not worked out yet, it's not the end! Corny but it makes me smile.

Thinking of you.

adoptmama Sat 20-Apr-13 20:03:54

I hate to say it, but I really don't think there is anything you can do for DD2 at the moment beyond what you are doing already; being there to listen and support her. I think your fear that sooner or later it will crash and burn is all too likely to be true, but I doubt there is anything you can do to prevent it. At least you are there and she is still living in your home, so when the crash comes you can help if she will let you. At her age, I doubt there is more you can do; you certainly can't shield her from herself, sadly.

Hopefully one day DD2 will come out the other side of this infatuation and see understand the need for a more healthy relationship with her BM. I hope your DS can also take some strength and comfort from seeing your strong and consistent love for him and his sister.

Best wishes.

aladdinsane Sun 21-Apr-13 08:41:07

Could after adoption help to support your daughter?
She could do with someone from outside the situation who can make some attempt to keep her grounded
She sounds emotionally immature, like my AD, and not able to make rational choices
She needs some sort of support/advocate CAMHS I have found to be totally useless but after adoption or even NSPCC as she sounds vulnerable

Lilka Sun 21-Apr-13 18:10:14

They've gone out together today

Her mum came to the house to pick her up (DS was NOT here at the time, he has been having a fun day out with his eldest sister).

I've been doing some laundry and listening to the radio

I had to turn it off for a bit, because they put on a song that DD used to listen to loads (she sticks songs on repeat at full volume). Song is fine is the verses, but the chorus just about killed me

Damn, Damn, Damn,
What I'd do to have you
Here, here, here
I wish you were here.
Damn, Damn, Damn
What I'd do to have you
Near, near, near
I wish you were here

Kewcumber Sun 21-Apr-13 21:24:50

Haven't posted so far as I've been polushing my pearls of wisdom carefully. Here's what I've got so far...

'oh bugger Lilka, sounds shitty'

I am working on more but that's all I've come up with so far. Does it help?

Lilka Sun 21-Apr-13 21:41:08

That's just fine Kew smile

Don't worry. I'm not coming on here expecting a stranger saviour to swoop down and offer the advice of redemption which fixes everything in 3 easy steps. Although that would be nice.....

All the kind words of support are helpful to me smile

In a very odd coincidence, this evening (DD safely back, behaviour off the wall) I sat down to read my magazine only to disover a lovely real life story about a birth mother and son from the USA who reunited and fell passionately in love (with sick inducing details added), and have spent thousands on IVF to have a baby together. Cute baby picture added. Which reminded me of a very similar story I read about a year ago which follows the same pattern - mother gives daughter for adoption, but obsesses over her, and when they reunite when the daughter is 19 they fall in love, have amazing sex and move in together, and are about to embark on IVF treatment.

I'm telling you, reading about their amazing sex put me right off my dinner. Vomit. Vomit. Vomit shock

So it could be worse for me right now... <puke>

LalyRawr Sun 21-Apr-13 21:51:26

I have absolutely no advise to offer but just wanted to say those stories are called Genetic Sexual Attraction. The brain recognises similar traits and physical likenesses to itself so finds it attractive (the brain is a narcissist). The only relationship it can understand (seeing as there is no familial bond) is a sexual one.

Generally happens to siblings/parents & children who meet for the first time as adults.

I'm sorry, I really wish I had that 3 step plan for you rather than useless(& disturbing) explanations.

Lilka Sun 21-Apr-13 21:56:20

Yes I've heard about GSA and the theory behind it. I even could get as far as supporting siblings in a relationship.

But not mother/father and child. Support ends there in my head. You don't have to act on your feelings. I seem to remember the woman who coined the term GSA did not act on her feelings. How do they think it's acceptable to have sex with someone you gave birth to??

There's no need to be sorry about not having my 3 step plan! Thanks for the support smile

Happyasapiginshite Mon 22-Apr-13 10:01:11

O Lilka, this is so crap. It must be like watching an accident about to happen and there's nothing you can do to prevent it. I thought Soupa's post above was full of wisdom and she speaks as someone who's been where you are. I wish we could magic it all better for you.

Kewcumber Mon 22-Apr-13 10:59:08

We might be able to cobble together a 24 step plan between us?

Lilka Mon 22-Apr-13 11:10:37

Do any of the Steps involve copious consumption of wine and chocolate? Because I'm way ahead of you in that case..... wink

Moomoomie Mon 22-Apr-13 16:34:15

That is step No. 1..... Eat own body weight in chocolate, it is Interchangeable with drinking copious amounts of alcohol. Personally I prefer the chocolate.
wine or brew if preferable.

Maryz Mon 22-Apr-13 22:34:11

I agree with Kew.

I really don't know what to say. Kristina comparing it to a teenage romance is spot on. And it's going to end horribly, isn't it sad. But I have a couple of suggestions.

Firstly, if your ds doesn't want letterbox contact don't do it. Just don't, you don't have to, it isn't a legal requirement. I stopped sending photos of dd when she was about 8 because she wanted me to stop. I still get requests, but I'm not doing it. Full stop.

Secondly, don't let her come to your house. For ds's sake, see if you can actually ask her NOT to come to collect dd2 - say dd2 will go to her. You can also refuse to talk about her or about what they are doing when ds is around. It isn't fair on him otherwise. It will be hard to refuse to talk to dd2, but I think you are going to have to make a hard and fast rule here.

And finally, and most importantly, how are you looking after yourself ? What nice things are you doing for you? And for ds? (You are absolutely the right person to adopt him, btw, because you will be able to protect him from his bm). You need to have something to look forward to, something that you enjoy, that you can put your emotional energy into instead of constantly worrying about dd2.. You need to disengage and become less emotionally invested in what dd and bm are doing (and I know you can't actually disengage, but you can bloody well pretend to, which is nearly as effective). Learn to block it out, to stop intrusive thoughts, to simply refuse to let yourself spend hours worrying about the what-ifs.

In a way I can liken it to ds and his wonderful and destructive relationship with drugs hmm. Hopefully it is an addictive obsession that will wear off, that will get boring, that they will grow out of. And in the meantime, we need to look after ourselves and keep ourselves sane for when they do grow up, when they do come back, if that makes sense.

So deal with it when it is happening, and put it out of your mind as much as possible when it isn't.

Italiangreyhound Mon 22-Apr-13 22:46:32

Look after you Lilka.

Lilka Tue 23-Apr-13 14:15:52

Thanks all smile

Maryz you are alway so full of wisdom smile Yes I have decided to stop letterbox contact for DS until and unless a time comes when he wants to start it again. It's quite a turnaround for him as he was never upset about letters before all this happened - he even picked out photos to put in. I wonder if those letters somehow didn't feel 'real' to him? Like the firstmother in the letter was an abstract imaginary figure. But now he's seen her, she's actually real, in the flesh, and all his insecurities have come out in full. I was so annoyed that the letterbox co-ordinator did not listen the first time when I phoned and explained I wasn't going to do any more letters. I bloody hope she listened this time because I'm not going through this a third time. Woe betide anyone who sends me another 'reminder' !

Of course you are so right that I must look after myself. To be honest though I'm struggling to do any more than have 5 minutes to myself right now. DS is suddenly regressing, DD's behaviour is really erratic, and because my other DD has developed Pelvic Pain and is struggling to get around a lot (going out with DS at the weekend really did not help but she insisted), i need to help her out more, you know do some of her shopping, look after DGD a bit more. DGD is lovely but certainly not relaxing. And I also have part time work (not a lot of hours and quite flexible luckily) and my own house to run on top of this.

I need to find time to do things for me, even a nice long hot bath would be wonderful.......

And I'm struggling with the disengaging as well. I pretend nothing is happening when she, DS and I are together, and I'm really cross about the effect this is having on DS....and yet I want to be involved in this 'reunion' confused When she's with her other mother I desperately want her back...even though she's hardly easy to have in the house. I want to know what they're doing and for her to tell me how their meetings the same time I don't like knowing. I can't square my feelings at the moment, they're all over the place.

Maryz Tue 23-Apr-13 17:16:54

You have to learn to put up barriers in your brain. It is difficult, and takes practice, but makes a massive difference.

For example, I used to lie awake every night worrying about ds1 when he first started running away. He was 13, my eldest, and all my friends were worrying about letting them go to the cinema on their own, he was disappearing until 7 in the morning hmm.

It took me years until one day someone said to me "what is the worst that can happen?" And I realised that either he was dead in a ditch in which case worrying wasn't going to achieve anything, or he wasn't, in which case worrying was also a waste of time.

I used to spend hours anticipating every possibility of what might happen next. Every possible scenario, with all the possible combinations and permutations that each scenario would lead to. I would have practice conversations in my head - ffs one day I even "wrote" his funeral service in my head and I often had middle of the night imaginary conversations with police and judges. It was bloody exhausting.

And you know, most of it was a complete waste of time, but it made me a complete emotional wreck.

Once I compartimentalised, and only thought about it when it was actually happening, life became much more manageable.

So when dd2 is with her bm you have to STOP yourself wondering where they are, what they are doing/saying/buying. Force yourself to do happy things with ds. Try to have set times when you talk to dd about what they have done. And make lots of pondering, hmm-ing, yes-dear types of noises. Because what they are doing when they are together is really irrelevant in the long term, even though it seems so important now.

Try not to make it a fight or an intense discussion, just another activity like eating dinner, going to school, watching dr who or whatever. Try to be more pragmatic.

It's horrible, but you will survive this. And you can look on it as a brilliant opportunity to prove to ds that you will put his needs first, and won't let her see him, won't talk to him about her, won't write to her about him, which might reduce his anxiety.

KristinaM Tue 23-Apr-13 19:14:45

Wise words Mary.

Happyasapiginshite Tue 23-Apr-13 21:51:56

Wise words indeed, Mary. I'm only sorry you've had to go through what you've had to go through to get to be so wise.

(((((Hugs))))) Lilka.

Lilka Tue 23-Apr-13 23:07:36

Thank you Maryz smile

I also wish you hadn't to go through this

You are right, worrying is certainly an emotionally exhausting excersise...and ultimately isn't changing the situation. I need to try and disengage from the situation more. And I'm sure it will take some practice but I must try to do it.

I also need to find things to do with DS and for me. I don't really have the time or money to go out often but maybe schedule time in to play games together and just do some fun things.

For me, I still want my hot bath with bubbles, candles and mint scent.

Thankfully I also find writing quite a break. Even writing about this situation on MN is somewhat cathartic.

Speaking of which, today the finishing touches were put to some writing, and tomorrow i think I'm going to be published on a blog. Nothing very exciting, an interview about my adoption experience, but it was interesting writing it, and oddly enough, a distraction. You'd think writing about adoption wouldn't be a distraction from my current, clearly adoption related, problems but in fact I lose myself in writing and forget everything else going on.

Which i suppose proves i do have the ability to compartmentalise and I will be able with practice to put the DD situation out of my head when she's with her mother.

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