We rely on advertising to keep the lights on.

Please consider adding us to your whitelist.



Advanced search

Here are some suggested organisations that offer expert advice on adoption.

oh shit, hold my hand

(66 Posts)
Lilka Sat 02-Feb-13 16:40:28

Took DD2 and DS out shopping this morning which was going well

We went into a department store to search for nice shoes and DS was trying some on when DD2 freezes, then shrieks and runs off and I turn round to see her launching herself at her mum who is in the same shop

Mum very shocked to see us
Me very shocked and speechless
DS asked what was going on, saw his firstmother and got up and ran off in the other direction

I didn't know what to do, run after DS or go to DD2
I chose DS and he was upset and didn't want to see her, so I said he didn't have to and it was ok, and left him with a shop assistant to go back. I feel like a shit mum for not staying with him but I was on my own and didn't know what I needed to do

So I went back and said hello. DD overwhelming her mother with non stop chatter and hugging and kissing sad I gulped and said hi and her mum was at least not unhappy to see me and asked how I was and where was DS gone? Other shoppers are looking at us like we're lunatics and dodging us.

I haven't even got the energy to go into all the tale, just that DD and her mum spent ages with each other, while I had to call my friend to come and look after DS and take him home while I stayed with DD

And now DS is upset and feeling a bit abandonned because I chose to supervise DD instead of take him home and leave her, DD is overwhelmed and cycling through 50 emotions but positively will not stop going on about how wonderful, lovely and fantastic her mum is. Me, I don't know what the actual fuck to do sad

This was not supposed to happen like this and I feel out of control and really upset and exhusted sad fucking hell

Italiangreyhound Wed 20-Mar-13 16:30:44

Lilka I am so pleased the Croods sounds good, am off to see it with my DD on Saturday (with her friend) will think of you. Hope it goes really well.

TOTALLY agree that going early to pick up and ensure no impulse stuff goes on is a good idea.

I am sure you will be a sunny positive force tonight and be interested in the film and all smiles, even if you feel sad. Remember the bigger picture, you are strong, she loves you, you love her etc.

LadyHarrietdeSpook Wed 20-Mar-13 09:12:50

Lilka, I can't stop thinking about your posts and your situation.

What I am curious about is what sort of counselling and support SS is providing for you, in addition to the practical plan for contact they are proposing, which I think under the circumstances sounds reasonable. I agree that trying to shut down contact completely isn't going to work - given your DDs age at this point and the fact we live in the age of FB/texting.

I don't think the impulsiveness you describe should be indulged though - there should be consequences if the BM doesn't agree to adhere to what is agreed, if you see what I mean. She needs to show that her judgment is not totally in question if she wants people facilitating contact with her birth daughter in this way.

But going back to my earlier point, it's great that you had the wherewithal to find that book which as you say is useful for people who adopt a child over 8. But I don't think that you should be on your own with this.

I'm thinking it may be helpful for you to speak directly to people who have been through this themselves. Is this possible? Can they suggest anyone?

Other than that - I do agree with what an earlier poster said, please take care of yourself and focus on the really positive relationships you have with your other children.

Lilka Tue 19-Mar-13 23:07:17

Italian - Thanks so much for suggesting The Croods smile - I hadn't heard about it till you mentionned it and it's about right for us, DD2 likes kids animations a lot, she still loves Barbie videos for instance and DS is excited to see it. I found it at the next nearest cinema to book so we are going Friday and we will eat out as well

I asked them today and DD was very happy, so phew, I thought she might think I was trying to one-up other mother.

More importantly right this second, she and OM are spposed to be going out TOMORROW early evening. I am so nervy and feeling very protective of DD (and annoyed/upset as well). I am taking her there and bringing her back. I'm planning to drive there before i expect the film to end so I can be there when they come out, maybe it's over the top but I'm worried that they will go off together afterwards confused

Harriet - SS are not happy with the situation but after having talked to mum, there isn't really a great deal they can do with her personally. I am still in contact with PASW, and she wonders whether another meeting with mum and talking with DD will result in getting together a better plan for contact, and arranged visits if wanted. So rather than just a general talk about contact, a few focussed ones with an actual aim to get a plan together. It depends how receptive mum and DD are to the idea. And also they are both impulsive so even with arranging things they could still suddenly decide to deviate from plans on the spur of the moment

LadyHarrietdeSpook Mon 18-Mar-13 12:51:38

I should say I am an adopted child myself (as a baby though.)

I feel awful for you.

PASW/SS have got themsevles involved now, I know they have contacted mum and talked to her.

Is this still ongoing? What are their views on this situation?

My visceral reaction is that I wish this woman could be helped to back off, at least until your DD is 18. I appreciate you don't want to make her 'more interesting' to your DD and it's hard to 'police' FB and texting. But if her personal situation is still problematic in the way I'm guessing it was when your DD came to you I would think there would be a reason for SS to intervene.

Furthermore - is right that the integrity of the adoption is preserved which includes, in my view, respecting basic boundaries which are being overstepped here.

The fact that the BM is organising things like movie nights with your DD or at least willing to go along with her suggestions says to me her judgement isn't great - she's not thinking about the implications of her behaviour. I would also think that this is a reason for SS to re-engage.

Your DD has to think about her longterm relationship with this woman - she may well be around for a while although it wouldn't surprise me if a scenario like the one Kristina M plays out. But - what then for your daughter.

At the very least your DD needs to be old enough and mature enough to cope with whatever the BM throws at her in terms of her behaviour. I agree it's probably not likely to be the case that she is ready now.

Italiangreyhound Mon 18-Mar-13 03:56:53

fab film not dab film!

Italiangreyhound Mon 18-Mar-13 03:55:44

I am sure she would believe you if you said that you had planned to take her. Why not say to her that if she enjoys it a lot and thinks DS would like it you will take them both on Friday too?

I know you said your DD is quite young for her age would she like Wreak it Ralph or the Croodes?

I thought about taking my DD to see OZ but I thought it might be a bit scary! Maybe for me. If it doesn't work out that you see that or anther movie, try not to let it spoil a nice meal out. Could you use the money you save on not going to the cinema to go to a lovely restaurant or simply to have a big special meal?? I don't mean this in any way to try and buy her love or one up on birth mum's evening. Maybe you could just be honest and say at some time. i was plannng to take you to see that too so if you love it we will see it again and if not then we can just have a really special meal out. It's a win win, if she loves it enough to see it twice you get to go with her and if not then maybe it's not such a dab film anyway.

Chin up my dear you are a super mum.

(PS we saw Wreck it ralph and it is funny and quite good and off to see the Croodes on Saturday).

Lilka Sun 17-Mar-13 20:40:52

Oh believe me I sound stronger online than I do in real life. I do have mini tantrums and cry (just not in front of the kids)

I am still planning to go out with them to eat but I'm really not sure what to do about the cinema....I checked the listing again but I don't see any other films than Oz rated PG/U (for DS) and showing on Friday night sad

Maybe she'll agree to see it twice but if I tell her now, it'll look like i just came up with it to sabotage mum's plans because I'm jealous angry

Moomoomie Sun 17-Mar-13 18:52:26

Lilka. You have been so strong through out all of this, I'm really not sure I would have been.
Nothing more I can add, apart from we are all thinking of you, and are here for you.

Italiangreyhound Sun 17-Mar-13 16:40:33

Stay strong lilka.

Would it be appropraite to see if you can go to film with them too, or is that too painful or too risky in case she says no?

Can you still have your nice night out with a different film, or just with a meal?

I know nothing about all this, I have no idea how deep the pain runs, but please try and be calm. Enjoy the fun bits with DD. You also have your lovely DD1 and DS and your scrumptious DGD and your DGCIV (dear grand child in vitro) so you have a lot of people who love you and you can love. I have no idea about DD2's birth mum's life, but she missed out on the joy (and sorrows) of bringing up DD. So this time may be a little bit nice for her and for you DD2. I know you are worried things will go wrong, and you are right to worry and be concerned. I think if you can maintain some relationship/contact with the birth mum to help DD through this time then that would be good for DD2, and will probably end up being helpful to you and to the birth mum.

It is truly horrible situation for you but try and think of the two sides of this as not impacting on each other so directly, by that I mean, if she loves birth mum it doesn't mean she loves you less, if things go wrong with birth mum it won't necessarily make life easier for you or worse for you.So try and maintain that joy with DD and not worry too much about how much she loves birth mum etc. I know. I know, easier said than done. But if she knows how much it hurts you I am not sure she would be capable of changing how she feels or acts and might simply be secretive about it.

Look after yourself. Remember the good times and you know there will be more to come. Trust your wise instincts and remember what a truly good job you have done in bringing her up.

QOD Sun 17-Mar-13 15:33:53

Happy has a good idea!
I'm so sorry it's all still going on, I'd hoped bm would have got a bit fed up

Happyasapiginshite Sun 17-Mar-13 15:04:14

Would it be a crazy idea for you to meet the BM (maybe with the social worker?) and talk to her face to face about the impact that recent developments are having on your family and on your relationship with dd? You said she was in favour of the adoption so presumably on some level she understands that she was not going to be the best parent to her children. If she could be made to understand that while in the short term, she and dd are having a little honeymoon reunion period but ultimately where will this end for dd? What does she think is going to happen in the future?

This is awful for you and if I were you I would be lying on the floor howling and kicking my legs. And while dd might be very excited to be reunited with BM, this can only end in tears, her tears.

Lilka Sun 17-Mar-13 14:34:45

They've gone to text messaging and phone calls this week. I was kind of wondering when that was going to happen.

At least we had a good day yesterday, DD even told me she loves me, and we danced round the living room to some cheerful old songs (Dancing on the Ceiling anyone?) smile

DD wants to go see a certain film at the cinema and I was planning to go next Friday..go out to eat as well, make a nice evening of it (hopefully). Only DD told mum how much she wants to see this film, and mum immediately invited her to come out and see it with her sad angry Before next Friday

So my nice planned family evening out is not going to happen, she's going to do it with other mother instead. I want to shout 'Why did you invite her?? You didn't ask me first whether I had plans. You obviously haven't paid any heed whatsoever to the chat with SS about meeting DD. In one ear, out the other. Can you have even a little bit of consideration?? Stop ruining the nice things I could have". angry sad

And yes, could be worse, I know I know. The cinema is hardly a nightclub or pub so it should be safe. But I won't be there. What if something happens, what if mother invites her to something else or her home afterwards??

Lilka Tue 26-Feb-13 02:11:09

It's called 'Three Little Words'

Lilka Tue 26-Feb-13 02:10:30

It is an amazing book IMHO, and a must read for those who would like to adopt children aged 8+

It's rare to get a memoir from the adoptee themself, much less one who experienced neglect, abandonnement, the foster care sytem and adoption. She writes very well and goes through her whole story beginning to end. It's really good for understanding the possible emotions an older child might experience in adoption. She had been through so many foster homes some of whom told they loved her before she was moved, and one foster mother who abused her, her birth mother loved her but couldn't get her back and would miss visits for years at a stretch, she saw children get adopted but then disrupt and come back to the home, her brother's adoption disrupts...so of course in the back of her mind, she felt adoption was as good a deal as she would get, but not something that was likely to be permanent....she describes feeling like she would be sent back, pushing boundaries, pushing her adoptive mother, the process of settling in and her parents attaching to her. But love took years on her end which she describes, as well as contact with her birth family and legally challenging her abusive former foster mother. But eventually she realised she had really found a permanent home, not a placement, and a mum and dad smile

Now she's a graduate, a foster mother, completed college, won a whole host of awards, worked as GAL, and advocates for adoption of older children. She's an amazing woman smile Would have been nice to have a book like that before i adopted, although when i adopted DD1, Ashley was still living in a children's home. I think they must be very close in age

Italiangreyhound Tue 26-Feb-13 00:50:57

Lilka that's beauiful, I think I need to read that book.

Thinking of you.

MrsBW I'm sorry I misunderstood your question, it wasn't really my place to answer it, and i can't really answer it anyway and of course Lilka can!

However, I am a mum - have not adopted yet - and personally, i woudln't say that birth parent fluffed their lines but I guess it must be so hard to know how to think of them and the complicated relationship people have with people in their lives, perhaps people who have hurt them etc. It is so good to have mumsnet to hear all this information.

MrsBW Mon 25-Feb-13 22:27:01

Lilka you put it far more eloquently than me.

I'm going to look for a copy of that book.

Thank you - take care and I hope the next few days go as you would wish them to be.

Lilka Mon 25-Feb-13 22:10:05

Domjolly - Yes, I am DD's mother/mum. That's certainly how I see myself. But I don't see myself as her only mother/mum. Her other mother is also her mum. That's always how it's been, since she moved in. DD calls her mum/my or mummy X, and has done since she learned to talk.

I had a relaxing-ish afternoon and this evening I sat and read a book I love again. It's a memoir by a (truly inspirational) young woman, Ashley Rhodes-Courter, who was removed from her mother aged 3, then spent over 8 years cycling through about 14 different foster homes and children's homes in Florida before being adopted aged 11. It's an amazing book, and I found myself rereading all the passages and chapters about her birth mother and her adoption. I had a little cry, there's a poignant (to me) scene she describes when she and her adoptive mother talk about meeting up with her birth mother. She asks her adoptive mum whether she (mum) would feel awkward, and her mum sighs and says that she knows Ashley's birth mother will always be the love of her life. It really resonated a bit about DD2. She's like Ashley in many ways. Loves her mum very much, always believed she would go home to mum again when in foster care, and was reluctant to love any other woman as mum in case that's betraying first mum.

Her mum is the one who was there in her first crucial years, and the one she loved first and the one she clung to in foster care and the one she can't let go of. I do worry that she is the love of DD's life, and therefore she might abandon her home here (although Ashley didn't and eventually came to attach to her parents and see her birth mother as a person with bad points as well as good).

All I want (well I want more but primarily this) is for her to continue and always to see me and love me as her mum, as well as her other mum.

I think birth family relationships are something to consider and think through carefully if you wish to adopt an older child who spent a considerable amount of time with first parent's.

MrsBW Mon 25-Feb-13 21:57:13

Italangreyhound I was referring to the inference that all birth parents 'fluff their lines' and therefore don't deserve to be considered 'mothers' I think that's an unfair generalisation.... And a potentially harmful view in the long run.

Lilka I have thought of you a lot since first reading this. I am not a parent so won't proffer any advice but I think you're handling it beautifully.

Italiangreyhound Mon 25-Feb-13 20:50:10

MrsBW I don't know what it's like as am not an adoptive parent yet. A birth parent doesn't cease to exist when a child is adopted so how can a child relate to that person. It's a tough question and I can see Lilka is trying so hard to support her DD, which is such a great thing in itself.

Italiangreyhound Mon 25-Feb-13 20:30:48

Lilka pottery place or lunch sounds good.

Good idea and well done for keeping your head and thinking straight. You are are wise and you will get through this.

Hang on, I really hope it will get easier.

Can you gently remind her of the fun times you have had together? 'Woo' her a bit with memories in a really gentle way?

You are right to support her, she needs you now more than ever. The simplest things can mean a lot.

MrsBW Mon 25-Feb-13 16:46:42

Domjolly - it's really not like that at all, is it?

Domjolly Mon 25-Feb-13 15:07:12

Can i just say lady one thing i picked up on you all keep saying there mum

Ladies YOUR THERE MOTHERS the biological parents had there chance and fluffed there lines you are there MOTHERS and dont you forget of doubt it

Lilka Mon 25-Feb-13 14:21:08

PASW/SS have got themsevles involved now, I know they have contacted mum and talked to her.

DD wants to meet mum, so I am trying to push the idea of a nice neutral venue somewhere. Do something she enjoys, go out to eat lunch together? Go to her favourite pottery painting place? I don't know, anything that doesn't involve her going to mum's house. I think contact centre wouldn't work well, DD had real problem in FC with them, I think it might bring it all back?

I am telling her I support her, and that I could be there as well to support her if she wants.

PASW wants (and has talked to mum) about any meetings being supervised at first and not taking place at her house etc, and also about letters being a better idea than FaceBook, I hope mum is receptive to this, although she does still come on FB to talk to DD

I do have a few close friends/family to confide in thankfully but yes this is one of the very hard bits of being single

Happyasapiginshite Mon 25-Feb-13 13:54:19

Again, no advice from me but I just wanted to lend to the support you're getting here. It's a really tough time for you, I hope you have RL friends close enough to unload on. I know it's hard to have friends who truly can understand what you're going through and who you're able to divulge the personal stuff to. Is your elder dd close to dd2? Could she talk to her? Is there any support from SS in this situation?

Italiangreyhound Sat 23-Feb-13 20:00:25

I think you are doing a good job.

Try and stay strong. Be very kind to yourself.

You tried so hard and did the right thing for so long, that really will count in the long run, I am sure this is a phase.

Thinking of you and your lovely DD. So sorry you are jealous but it is totally normal for you to feel that way. Thinking of your DS too, although he is unhappy, I am sure he will get through it all.

Join the discussion

Join the discussion

Registering is free, easy, and means you can join in the discussion, get discounts, win prizes and lots more.

Register now